throwing the first couple shots away

[Dr5x]

How I came up with the idea of a fouling shot.
Back when life was good I would spend 3 or more days at the range. I noticed that my first shot was off the center and about 2 inches in the direction of 7 o'clock. All subsequent shots were on center where I wanted them to be.
I wondered what was the difference between the first shot and the later shots.
The first shot was the only shot fire from a very clean barrel.

So the next time at the range I dropped 30 or so grains down the barrel, no ball, fired it down range, wiped and then loaded for real and the first ball hit dead center. with no wandering toward 7 o'clock.

It worked for me so I stuck with the practice.

Dutch Schoultz

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Hi Rob! It's Dave from Old Bridge.

Your question is as old as black powder shooting itself! The answer as to whether or not you'll need to do it will depend upon your rifle's performance, which you will have to check for yourself, as each rifle is a different animal!

My .50 caliber Trade Rifle likes to be fouled with a round into the Berm prior to shooting for score. Using the 370 grain Maxi's, I can take 6 or 7 shots before I have to use a spit patch. Too much fouling causes my groups to open-up and too little results in a flier at hunting distances, so I try to keep a happy median with just enough fouling to get the job done.

I was really proud shooting our Match. Everything was almost "Zen-like", and I was remembering to wait, breathe and think "small" as far as where I wanted the conicals to go. And I had a good time shooting with you and the rest of our group as well!

I'm glad to see you've joined the Forum. You will no doubt get a lot out of it, as the folks here are really GREAT! This Forum is one of the reasons I do as good as I do, so keep on asking questions so you can make the most of our hobby! Remember if it's really important, just call me on my cell.

Chat soon!

Dave

 

[Dphar]

I always see guys shoot there muzzleloaders 2 or 3 times before actually taking aim at the target. Why is that? I always just load the first and shoot it. Usually its right on. Even when hunting. I always start with a clean bore and killed plenty of deer on the first shot. Anyone have some proof or insight for me? Thanks guys.

The type of oil used as a preservative, how well is wiped out before loading, the patch lube and how it might react with it are reasons people might shoot a shot or two.
I shot 5 sighters before the the last match I shot because I needed to file the sights some. I would still shoot 1-2 at least to CONDITION THE BORE so it would be the same for the first score shot.
The slight difference that might be evident is not likely to be enough to cause a deer to be missed. But if it throws it out 1" at 60 yards it could cost prize money in a match.
So there are valid reasons to shoot a fouling shot in a match. Hunting, no. But match shooting is not hunting.

Dan

 

[gmww]

I hunt on a fouled barrel. I've fouled it either with just powder or with a ball. A ball when I'm at the range and going to hunt the next morning. Powder if I have to travel a couple of days to the hunt area. Then I'll foul with powder and do a wipe with a patch.

In small bore competition, we would fire one or two fouling rounds at the start. This usually worked well in getting rid of any oil in the barrel.

 

[Rev_William]

I don't fire a fouling shot. I have fired my rifle enough t know 1st shot 99 % of the time will fire about 1/4" left of where I aim. After that it is dead on. I don't like the idea of leaving residue in a barrel over night or firing as soon as I get out for the hunt before I even see anything.

 

[ken.clements]

well....pour the powder in and stamp three times with the left foot. Put the Minie in, stamp only twice with the right foot :grin:
For me it is habit and how I was taught.
Two caps fired into the ground to get the Oil out of the Nipple and see if the Barrel is free.
One fouling shot into the burm to get....whatever.
I can't tell you why it happens or what exactly the reason is”¦.here is what I’ve found out and maybe you can draw your own conclusions:
1) My first shot goes astray, doesn’t matter which Rifle I use (never hits where I want it to and I have lots of the persnickety buggers)
2) I only shoot Minie’s, I don’t know if a PRB would defeat the purpose of “fouling shot”.
3) It can’t be because of “warming up” the barrel because we have up to 10 ”“ 15 Minutes between “fouling shots” and the actual competition shoot (depending on who has problems at the line). Sometimes 1-2 hours between matches.
4) It can’t be because of the type of Rifle or Rifling because all that I have are different, also different quality of Rifling (English originals, PH, Italian, Belgian, and Indian).

It probably has a highly scientific reason”¦..bluntly put “filling up the spaces with crud” or “the same Barrel resistance with the second shot as the last shot””¦I don’t know”¦but it’s fun trying to find out”¦ :wink: sometimes :redface:

 

[Dphar]

I hunt on a fouled barrel. I've fouled it either with just powder or with a ball. A ball when I'm at the range and going to hunt the next morning. Powder if I have to travel a couple of days to the hunt area. Then I'll foul with powder and do a wipe with a patch.

In small bore competition, we would fire one or two fouling rounds at the start. This usually worked well in getting rid of any oil in the barrel.

Fouled guns are a recipe for misfire. Fouling sucks up water like a sponge in humidity over about 30%. This will wet the cap or the fouling and can cause the "powder bed" to rot out over time. Many original guns have been shortened at the breech for this reason. If using a water based patch lube its even worse. Using this and a corrosive substitute powder is worse yet.
When small game hunting in Iowa hunting with a fouled gun was common but it was also a risk, with flintlocks the pan has to be wiped clean of the fouling will wet the prime.
In Montana the humidity is usually low and reloading a fired gun is not a worry unless its snowing or raining or in snow covered trees.


Dan

 

[Dphar]

well....pour the powder in and stamp three times with the left foot. Put the Minie in, stamp only twice with the right foot :grin:
For me it is habit and how I was taught.
Two caps fired into the ground to get the Oil out of the Nipple and see if the Barrel is free.
One fouling shot into the burm to get....whatever.
I can't tell you why it happens or what exactly the reason is”¦.here is what I’ve found out and maybe you can draw your own conclusions:
1) My first shot goes astray, doesn’t matter which Rifle I use (never hits where I want it to and I have lots of the persnickety buggers)
2) I only shoot Minie’s, I don’t know if a PRB would defeat the purpose of “fouling shot”.
3) It can’t be because of “warming up” the barrel because we have up to 10 ”“ 15 Minutes between “fouling shots” and the actual competition shoot (depending on who has problems at the line). Sometimes 1-2 hours between matches.
4) It can’t be because of the type of Rifle or Rifling because all that I have are different, also different quality of Rifling (English originals, PH, Italian, Belgian, and Indian).

It probably has a highly scientific reason”¦..bluntly put “filling up the spaces with crud” or “the same Barrel resistance with the second shot as the last shot””¦I don’t know”¦but it’s fun trying to find out”¦ :wink: sometimes :redface:

Naked bullets are not PRBs.
Worse the minie upsets on top of the fouling present.
In BPCR a fouled bore will cause a low shot in some rifles and can be worse with PP. Never shot any minies or naked ML bullets enough to pay attention. The one I did shoot much I used a dry and an oiled (animal oil) felt wad under the bullet which pretty well cleaned the bore when pushed to the powder.
However, it should be possible to determine where the shot from the fouled bore goes. It should be high if its "out". This can be allowed for.
The PRB is loaded in a dry bore will generally be in the group since the patch lube conditions the bore, it may be even if the bore has a light coat of preservative oil when its loaded though this can cause a high shot, depending.
Its a change in the bore friction that causes this.
I wipe the rifle out with denatured alcohol before loading for hunting or load it as soon as its dry after cleaning, depending.
It requires testing of the rifle to see how it reacts.
But fouled bores in MLs seldom shoot as well as clean ones do.

Dan

 

[VEARL]

Have several ML of different MFG and calibers. Each one is a different animal into it's self. Some want a patch between powder and ball and some don't. One has to have a fouling shot before it shoots accurate and the other rifles don't need fouling.
A shooter must experiment with his rifle to get to really know what it wants or doesn't want.
My wife says I'm like that too. :haha: