Tipi

But you cant tell me something I do to my lodge or gun or shirt is insulting to some one else just because the other person can see it.

I guess that means you'll never voice an objection to anything you see, hear or read, ever again. Good to know. :grin:

 

[Claude Mathis]

There are some things I have a "right" to do, but I choose not to, out of respect for others. It has nothing to do with being politically correct, it's about respect. It's the way I was raised.

 

[necchi]

If I were to choose to dress up as an Indian (many white folks do) and have a tipi and wanted to paint it as part of my pretend experience, then why can't they just accept it for what it is.....some old white fart playing dress-up and not take offense where none is intended. If I were to wear a piece of Indian clothing such as a war shirt as part of my pretend experience, why can't they just take it for what it is.....an old white fart playing dress-up.

Oh they do, just don't expect to learn anything about what your trying to dress-up as,
and don't get ****** if they either laugh at you or sneer.

If we are to live together, we had damned well better get over this business of looking under every rock and behind every tree for some reason, any reason, to become incensed.

Nobody I know goes looking for anything, but when it's thrown in their face, it's kind of hard to ignore.

Ya know? What most folks think is that this whole thing is about something from 150years ago, well that may be, but if your Father lived to be 75, and you live to be 75,,
That's that 150yrs,, and it doesn't seem so long ago now does it?

 

[Black Hand]

If I were to choose to dress up as an Indian (many white folks do) and have a tipi and wanted to paint it as part of my pretend experience, then why can't they just accept it for what it is.....some old white fart playing dress-up and not take offense where none is intended. If I were to wear a piece of Indian clothing such as a war shirt as part of my pretend experience, why can't they just take it for what it is.....an old white fart playing dress-up.

If you were a church-going man (and I get the impression you are) - How would you feel if someone parroted some church ceremony by playing dress-up? You are advocating as much in your statement above. It's just culturally insensitive and insulting.

 

[Billnpatti]

The Christian cross is one of the most sacred symbols to a Christian. Yet, we see all sorts of people wearing it as just a meaningless decoration. Where is the outcry over that?

" Don't just go slapping some paint on your canvas because you may piss someone off... "

May I point out that being ****** off is no real achievement. Any outhouse fly sitting on the seat rim can have that happen to them.

 

[Keb]

... but if your Father lived to be 75, and you live to be 75,,
That's that 150yrs,, and it doesn't seem so long ago now does it?

Well if my pa had lived to be 75 and I live to be 75 that would only be 115 years since he was 40 when I was borned.

 

[necchi]

Why does it always have to be about extremes?
Are some of these people so narrow minded they can only think in black and white.
Accept or don't accept?
Folks like that most live in a box,
It's all hypothetical manure that's simply being spewed in an attempt to make a point.

Go ahead, dress-up in a war shirt, paint your TP the way you want,
I might give you a hard time about it long before any NDN does.

Ignorance is bliss. But only for those that are blissfully ignorant.

Bill, this was not directed at you,, :v

 

[Billnpatti]

"How would you feel if someone parroted some church ceremony by playing dress-up?"

Have you never watched a part of your local Gay Parade with the "nuns" in drag. Or how about some of the parades in New Orleans? Yet, we are told that we should be accepting of them and how they choose to express themselves. If we are offended, we are just told to learn to be more tolerant. But just paint the wrong symbol on your tipi........hmmmmm. What's wrong with this picture?

 

[Claude Mathis]

"How would you feel if someone parroted some church ceremony by playing dress-up?"

Have you never watched a part of your local Gay Parade with the "nuns" in drag. Or how about some of the parades in New Orleans? Yet, we are told that we should be accepting of them and how they choose to express themselves. If we are offended, we are just told to learn to be more tolerant. But just paint the wrong symbol on your tipi........hmmmmm. What's wrong with this picture?

I hope you're not saying that someone else's bad behavior justifies additional bad behavior?

That's like saying, "It's okay that I beat my wife, because my neighbor beats his." Whatever happened to "personal responsibility"?

One of the things I told my children when they were young was - If you get into trouble, don't ever tell me "It was the other kids idea". The moment you decide to do something, it becomes your idea.

 

[Billnpatti]

Note my earlier statement:

" I'm not insensitive nor am I inclined to impolite actions but I am damned tired of walking on these eggshells. "

I do not have any intentions of purposely offending anyone, it is the people who insist on finding insult where none is meant that I am tired of.

 

[tenngun]

I agree, I don't want to insult any one, but I don't want an unreasoned negative response to stop me from doing something. In the early 90s I went to a Pow wow in Cherokee Village Arkansas. Met a lot of Indians, did not find out what tribe everyone was from...but I met a Cherokee and a Sauk and fox who were camping in a Sioux style tipi. I met a menomomee who was doing a fancy dance he was dressed in plains style outfit except for the plastic bead work. Now fancy dance is hard work and I'm sure plastic beads saves a lot of weight when dancing. Loamed beadwork is a lot cheaper then good lazy squaw. I do wonder after reading some of these post if any of you all think the Cheokee, sauk and fox and Menomonee ever got manure at a Pow wow for dising plains culture. Or can only White people be guilty of dising others culture. And yes the use of some symbols came with a request and a ceremony but not most. Indian women compeated against each other in decorations.

 

[Billnpatti]

Gentlemen, I think we have beat this horse to death :dead: and there will be little to gain by continuing the discussion. We will just have to say that we have differing opinions on the subject and let it go at that. :surrender: Let's move on to talking about muzzleloading. :thumbsup:

BTW, my wife is part Sauk-Fox and if what I do doesn't offend her......well, she's the only Indian I really fear. I'm bald so even if she gets her panties in a wad, what the heck....no scalp for her. :haha:

 

[Black Hand]

According to the responses, the topic is far from dead.

I realize that this topic makes some people feel uncomfortable, but cultural sensitivity is a necessity in todays global community.

But then again, Americans (as a whole) have a well-deserved reputation for being rude and insensitive to other cultures.

 

[necchi]

the topic is far from dead.

I agree with that, I will continue to encourage people to think beyond their little boxed minds, maybe even remove their blinders and open their eyes,,

but I also believe this is true of this particular thread,

there will be little to gain by continuing the discussion.

:youcrazy: :idunno:

 

[Claude Mathis]

I'm a firm believer that you just have to make your point and let it go. That's worked well for me on forums over the years. I have no interest in changing minds.

 

[tenngun]

those americans with a reputation for being rude,are they the same ones who saved the world from hitler and tojo? That defeated the soviet take over? That spent 400000 yankee lifes to free the slaves,that has done so much to defeate aids in africa,that spent more then all of europe put together to help tsunimi victims,that rebuilt germany and japan,saved south korea,spend so much private wealth on feeding the world ect ect ect,boy I hate those bastards

 

those americans with a reputation for being rude,are they the same ones who saved the world from hitler and tojo? That defeated the soviet take over? That spent 400000 yankee lifes to free the slaves,that has done so much to defeate aids in africa,that spent more then all of europe put together to help tsunimi victims,that rebuilt germany and japan,saved south korea,spend so much private wealth on feeding the world ect ect ect,boy I hate those bastards

Your obvious point is, they have a RIGHT TO BE RUDE. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. What people did in the past has nothing to do with your conduct today.

Is this a second grade exercise in logic? :rotf:

 

[tenngun]

no exercise in logic. I just find it distubing to call americans rude,when I can think of no other people who have done so much for so many.We can point to Canada and the mostly fair treatment of Indians there,but has any other nation treated a conqured people as well as we have. I have a great deal of respect for Indian culture,I went on a vision quest at 16 years old and have worshiped in the native american church,I got called a wannabe.I think of my faith today as indian influnenced,I try and learn and keep alive thier skills and always try to talk to any indian I meet with respect.But i will not tolerate any one telling me that I'm disrespctful because I use a 200 year old symbol without the permission after all of what is just another American alive today. No one should be rude ,but any one who judges something I do with my things as being insulting to them is the one wih the problem.Last year I was wearing a t shirt with a politacal mesage on it. A person stoped me in a wal mart and told me he didn't agree. I told him to thank god he could express his feelings in a voting both.He a an oppisite message on his t shirt.If a person wants to paint his loadge with plains,northwest,subartic or northeast woodland tribe symbols,no one else has a right to be insulted by it.I never painted my tipi because I didn't think it fit my time or place.If however I had it would have been with something that had meaning for me.Just like the symbols that were used in the past held a meaning for that person.Bats hat was for Bat(Romen nose)Crazy horses hailstones were for Crazy horse.If any one paints a dead deer or horse prints on thiere lodge it is a symbol for that person and not for me to judge nor is it for a person whos ancesetors came here 12000 years ago to judge.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I just find it distubing to call americans rude,when I can think of no other people who have done so much for so many.

Good behavior in the past does not justify bad behavior now.

That would be like justifying a man beating his wife because he was good to her for many years prior. :wink:

 

[tenngun]

How is it the just the sight of something is offensive?This is the thinking that has led to attacts on stars of david,crosses,ten commandments ect.Athiest are some how offended by seeing something they claim to have no faith in.I dont believe in big foot but I've never been insulted by those that do.So lets say I paint a boy scout 50s style thunderbird on my tipi,what on earth would enpower some indian with the knowledge that in my vision god-wankan tanka-yahweh-great spirt-odin-zeus or 9 billion other names didn't tell me to paint that on my lodge?I did get a vision,I think it was from God.Are you "saved" "enlightened""non Believer"that effects me and my relationship with 'the wise one above"not at all.The only person who can take offence at something I do with my stuff is a person who chooses to be offended.And a person who chooses to get offended will always find something to be offended at.The censor can always see evil where no one else can.