Tipi

[Black Hand]

And yet, others will continue to do whatever they want because they feel they have that right, regardless of the effects.

To borrow a phrase - It ain't all about you...

 

[necchi]

Well see now, there it is,
It was mentioned to use a little care if you don't know anything about native symbols on tipi,

If you want, by your examples, a dead deer, a horse or a thunderbird painted on your lodge you probably won't bother anyone.
If you go to a Black Foot Sun Dance and see a really neat painted lodge and decide;
"I'm going to paint my lodge like that!"
There in lies the rub,,
Do what you want by all means, yet at the same time you should/could expect some repercussions.

Example;
Someone here was using the example of misuse of Christian symbols, now being Christian, I might take offense, but I'm supposed to turn the other cheek, right?
I may be really offended and let the perceived offender know how I feel and possibly in a rather dramatic manner.

Both parties in my example above would feel they have the right to do as they wish, but someone (or both) will be offended.
Get it?
How about a guy burning a flag in a disrespectful manner, and I choose to stop him? Both of us expressing our own free will about said flag burning. ??

By the way, if you did paint your lodge like a Black Foot Lodge at a Sun Dance, and the tribe members saw that you where a non-tribal member with no Native affiliation,(?) you might just wake up very early in the morning to the smell of your camp and lodge on fire!! :wink:

 

[tenngun]

My choice for my lodge is to be unpainted.In fact I don't use a tipi any more since it dosn't fit in to my time and place any more. Your example of the flag burning is on point. If I saw you burning a flag I would choose to have no truck with you,you would not be welcome in my camp...but I would have no right to abuse you for doing it.I would have no right to get in your face about it. Your doing something stupid could in no way effect my patirotism. Since I have been called a member of the Wannabe tribe for just practicing my faith I dont think I would ever make it to a black foot sun dance.If I did go I would be respectful just as I am when I go to synagog or in a catholic or greek orthadox church.But if I did decide to paint blackfoot holy symbols on my lodge because I felt it right for me woe be he who would think he could burn my lodge or even makean asult on me

 

[Rifleman1776]

By the way, if you did paint your lodge like a Black Foot Lodge at a Sun Dance, and the tribe members saw that you where a non-tribal member with no Native affiliation,(?) you might just wake up very early in the morning to the smell of your camp and lodge on fire!!

And you expect us (who you assume to be all white) to respect them and kow-tow to what they want?
They lost once and would lose again.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Behaviors and attitudes, like mine, are often interpreted as bigotry. It is not. My attitude is a bias. Bias is a learned response from experiences.
OK, I'll relate a couple more experiences. When I was in the Air Force, stationed in Washington state, we had a fellow in our unit that was a full blood indian, forget the tribe, from Oregon. Every so often he would take a few days to go back to his home. He always left with a grin because he knew he would spend his time trying to get a 14 or 15 year old girl pregnant. His tribe received free money from the government based on a head count and having children was how they produced their income. Having babies as young teens meant they had more years to have more babies and get more free government money. I was never able to respect that tradition.
In more recent years we were friends with a couple. The wife was a legal indian as were her children. Each year they got a fat check they called their "indian money". The boys always bought a new pick up truck or fishing boat. The rest of the year, wife included, was spent staying drunk. Again, hard to respect that kind of tradition.
Lots of native peoples have been invaded and conquered over the centuries. It is the way of the world. The English seem to have survived Roman conquest. To the best of my knowledge Rome doesn't send free government money to every British every year.
Respect must be earned. You cannot demand it. (military chain of command excepted)

 

[Black Hand]

Behaviors and attitudes, like mine, are often interpreted as bigotry. It is not. My attitude is a bias. Bias is a learned response from experiences.
OK, I'll relate a couple more experiences. When I was in the Air Force, stationed in Washington state, we had a fellow in our unit that was a full blood indian, forget the tribe, from Oregon. Every so often he would take a few days to go back to his home. He always left with a grin because he knew he would spend his time trying to get a 14 or 15 year old girl pregnant. His tribe received free money from the government based on a head count and having children was how they produced their income. Having babies as young teens meant they had more years to have more babies and get more free government money. I was never able to respect that tradition.
In more recent years we were friends with a couple. The wife was a legal indian as were her children. Each year they got a fat check they called their "indian money". The boys always bought a new pick up truck or fishing boat. The rest of the year, wife included, was spent staying drunk. Again, hard to respect that kind of tradition.

So your very limited experience (of 2) extends your bias to a nation-wided population of approximately 4.1 million (2000 census - http://statisticbrain.com/native-american-statistics/). Sorry, that doesn't qualify as a bias any more...

Lots of native peoples have been invaded and conquered over the centuries. It is the way of the world. The English seem to have survived Roman conquest. To the best of my knowledge Rome doesn't send free government money to every British every year.

Now I can agree with this. The reservation system has done little to benefit the population of natives.

 

[Black Hand]

Sorry, "nation-wide". Typing slower than my brain....

 

[Rifleman1776]

Response:
#1) :bull: No.
#2) Glad you agree.
I see no point to continuing this discussion.
Bowing out.
To all :v .

 

[necchi]

:v ,,
:wink:
(ya olde stubburn coot!)

 

[Rifleman1776]

:v ,,
:wink:
(ya olde stubburn coot!)

Ye got the stubborn part right.
I'm not bowing out yet.
If ye think I'm a bigot ye got that very wrong.
I get very upset and saddened with those who won't do for themselves. Having a guaranteed lifetime income for life should be an impetus to be enterprising and encourage improving ones status in life.
Instead, seeing (on trips to Oklahoma and elsewhere) how indians live it is very sad they do not seem to want to improve their lives.
Documentary after documentary show often their main diet is malt beer and fry bread. Of course that results in depression and short life spans, often from suicide.
My attitude would have to be defined by an expert. Disgust? Sadness? Whatever, I dunno.
BTW, a side note on myself. The maternal side of my family came from French Canada. My mother was raised the first seven years of her life in northern Minnesota. She spoke only French until about age eight. Somewhere along the line an indian got under the sheets with one of my ancestors. Nothing was recorded and those generations didn't discuss matters like that. I have native indian blood in me but do not even know the tribe. I wish I did. If I choose to put certain symbols on my tipi, or wherever, it would be, IMHO, an act of respect, not disrespect.
Biased I may be. Bigoted, no.

 

[Ringel05]

:v ,,
:wink:
(ya olde stubburn coot!)

Ye got the stubborn part right.
I'm not bowing out yet.
If ye think I'm a bigot ye got that very wrong.
I get very upset and saddened with those who won't do for themselves. Having a guaranteed lifetime income for life should be an impetus to be enterprising and encourage improving ones status in life.
Instead, seeing (on trips to Oklahoma and elsewhere) how indians live it is very sad they do not seem to want to improve their lives.
Documentary after documentary show often their main diet is malt beer and fry bread. Of course that results in depression and short life spans, often from suicide.
My attitude would have to be defined by an expert. Disgust? Sadness? Whatever, I dunno.
BTW, a side note on myself. The maternal side of my family came from French Canada. My mother was raised the first seven years of her life in northern Minnesota. She spoke only French until about age eight. Somewhere along the line an indian got under the sheets with one of my ancestors. Nothing was recorded and those generations didn't discuss matters like that. I have native indian blood in me but do not even know the tribe. I wish I did. If I choose to put certain symbols on my tipi, or wherever, it would be, IMHO, an act of respect, not disrespect.
Biased I may be. Bigoted, no.

My grandfather was full blooded Chippewa (Ojibwa), we've tried a couple of times to get my mom's tribal birth certificate but each time the tribe elders lie and tell us the courthouse burned down, we know it didn't. They lie because they don't want to share the moneys they're making from the casino that we would be able to claim as legitimate tribal members. Apparently my grandfather was a handful and my Flemish grandma divorced him just before my mom was born.
I didn't find out about him until I was in my mid 30s, no one in the family talked about it.

 

[gearheart]

The average NDN in Canada lives very poorly because the $$$ goes to the tribe and not the individual. As a result the Chief and his / her cronies and relations live large and the rest barely get by. Lots of stuff that could be improved but you need to change the way they think before you can change the way they live. Sad but $$$ is not the answer.