to .54 or not to .54?

[harryo]

"thanks guys, it was great reading all the posts in favor of a .54 today. of course i just bought a .50 gpr last week. probably would have bought a .54 armed with this info."

Get Track of the Wolf to make you up a .54 caliber Green Mountain drop in barrel for it. They shoot like a house-a-fire.

The stock Investarm manufactured barrels for the GPR are 1:60" twist and shoot pretty darn good, too. You can get one of them from Midsouth for $116.15, plus shipping.

 

[musketman]

to .54 or not to .54?

That is the question... :haha:

Musketman's soliloquie:

To 54, or not to 54: that is the question:
Whether 'tis larger in the bore to front-stuffer
The patch and roundball of mid-caliber fortune,
Or to take single muzzleloader against a sea of doubles,
And by ordering lead for them? .490: to .530;
No more per pound in UPS haul
The shoulder-aches of a thousand plus shots
Thy flint is heir to, 'tis a consumption
Devoutly to be wish'd. .50 calibre to .54 calibre
To .54: perchance to patch: ay, there's the lube;
For in that lube of patch what shots may come
When we have touched off this .54 calibre,
Must give us pleasure: there's the respect
That makes smokely of so longrifles;
For who would bear arms of patched roundballs,
The sabots wrong, the proud man's cloth patch,
The tightening of English flint, the jaw's grip,
The abundance of roundballs and the sprues
That patient shooter merit of the .54 calibre bore,
When he himself might his roundball maker
With a lesser bore? who would shoot better,
To grunt and sweat under a heavy charge,
But that the lead of something of 220 grains,
The unbeatable calibre from whose bourn
No shooters regrets, .54 calibre will
And makes us rather forget those sub-calibres we have
Than try to others that we know not of?
Thus heavy recoil does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue cast by thy steel butt plate
Is ticklied o'er with the pure cost of the .50 calibre,
And enterprises of more balls per pound
With this regard their differences turn awry,
And .54 lose the name of ecconomy.-- Soft lead now!
The purest cast! wheelweights, nay in thy mold
Be all my shots remember'd.

 

[Stumpkiller]

ay, there's the lube

:rotf: :rotf: Priceless. :rotf: :rotf:

Something's fishy in Denmark.

 

[n8dawg6]

to .54 or not to .54?

That is the question... :haha:

Musketman's soliloquie:

To 54, or not to 54: that is the question:
Whether 'tis larger in the bore to front-stuffer
The patch and roundball of mid-caliber fortune,
Or to take single muzzleloader against a sea of doubles,
And by ordering lead for them? .490: to .530;
No more per pound in UPS haul
The shoulder-aches of a thousand plus shots
Thy flint is heir to, 'tis a consumption
Devoutly to be wish'd. .50 calibre to .54 calibre
To .54: perchance to patch: ay, there's the lube;
For in that lube of patch what shots may come
When we have touched off this .54 calibre,
Must give us pleasure: there's the respect
That makes smokely of so longrifles;
For who would bear arms of patched roundballs,
The sabots wrong, the proud man's cloth patch,
The tightening of English flint, the jaw's grip,
The abundance of roundballs and the sprues
That patient shooter merit of the .54 calibre bore,
When he himself might his roundball maker
With a lesser bore? who would shoot better,
To grunt and sweat under a heavy charge,
But that the lead of something of 220 grains,
The unbeatable calibre from whose bourn
No shooters regrets, .54 calibre will
And makes us rather forget those sub-calibres we have
Than try to others that we know not of?
Thus heavy recoil does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue cast by thy steel butt plate
Is ticklied o'er with the pure cost of the .50 calibre,
And enterprises of more balls per pound
With this regard their differences turn awry,
And .54 lose the name of ecconomy.-- Soft lead now!
The purest cast! wheelweights, nay in thy mold
Be all my shots remember'd.

so, what you're saying is . . . the .54 is better? :grin: :grin:

 

[Swampman]

Invest Arms and Lyman are not connected in any way.

 

to .54 or not to .54?

That is the question... :haha:

Musketman's soliloquie:

To 54, or not to 54: that is the question:
Whether 'tis larger in the bore to front-stuffer
The patch and roundball of mid-caliber fortune,
Or to take single muzzleloader against a sea of doubles...

*snip*

Friends, Flinters, riflemen, lend me your ears;
I come to praise the .54, not to bury it;
The good that flintlocks do lives after them,
The flash is oft interréd with their frizzens,
So let it be with the .54”¦. The noble Musketman
Hath told you the .54 was pleasurable:
If it is so, it is a glorious fault,
And gloriously hath the .54 answered it”¦.
Here, under leave of Musketman and the rest,
(For the .54 is an honourable gun;
So are they all; all honourable guns)
Come I to speak the .54's praise”¦.
It is my friend, faithful and just to me:
And Musketman says it is pleasurable;
And Musketman is an honourable man”¦.
He hath brought many critters home to Ohio,
Whose tenderloins did his coffers fill:
Did this in the .54 seem pleasurable?
When that the deer have fled, the .54 hath fired:
Pleasure shouldn't be made of other calibres:
And Musketman says it is pleasurable;
And Musketman is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Muzzleloader Forum
Stumpkiller thrice presented him a kingly lube,
Which he did thrice concoct: was this pleasure?
And Musketman says it is pleasurable;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Musketman spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love other calibres once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then to mourn the .54?
O roundball! Thou art fled to woodland beasts,
And inliners have lost their reason”¦. Bear with me;
My heart is in the possibles there with the .530s,
And I must shoot till it come back to me.

:rotf:

 

[harryo]

Invest Arms and Lyman are not connected in any way.

I don't know anything about Invest Arms. I said Investarm, an Italian company who makes Lyman's rifles for them. If you do not believe me, then refer to Lyman's own FAQ, in the section under Muzzle Loading Rifles, which clearly states this.

 

[Swampman]

That's unfortunate. I liked the GPR.

 

[Stumpkiller]

It's true. Get used to the world economy.

Italy, by the way, has Beretta, which has been manufacturing firearms longer than any other firm in the world. Don't discount the "proper" Italian firearms. Some of the Uberti, Pedersoli and Armi San Paolo (Euroarms) top end work is wonderful. Don't judge by the discounted manure Cabela's pushes. Dixie (their "house" firearms since after the Belgium days), Navy Arms, Lyman . . . It's Italian work.

Don't let Carcano and the $100 Pietta revolvers from Cabela's sway you. There's some good technology and craftsmanship there, too. :haha: Same with Spain. They were THE metalurgy centers of fine weapons for centuries. The U.S. has volume, technology and design worlds above, but we're talking 200 year old firearms designs here.

Hey, at least Italy hasn't slammed the door in our faces for side-lock traditionally styled firearms like the American firms have. :cursing:

 

[n8dawg6]

Hey, at least Italy hasn't slammed the door in our faces for side-lock traditionally styled firearms like the American firms have. :cursing:

well, that's definitely true. t/c has really abandoned the market, and a lot of their great old designs. which is a shame, in my opinion.

the italian guns ive been in contact with really have varied quite a bit as to quality. some have been embarrasingly bad (a traditions rifle, and a euroarms musket), and some have been pretty good (pedersoli shotgun). the t/c's ive seen have all been really good. haven't seen a lyman yet, but most folks seem to like them all right.

 

[musketman]

Hey, at least Italy hasn't slammed the door in our faces for side-lock traditionally styled firearms like the American firms have. :cursing:

well, that's definitely true. t/c has really abandoned the market, and a lot of their great old designs. which is a shame, in my opinion.

T/C should take note of it's own roots, was it not the sidelock that brought Thompson/Center it's black powder fame?

Aye, 'twas a T/C .54 calibre flintlock that started my passion for sidelocks, so many have started (and stayed with) the traditional wares from Thompson/Center...

.50 or .54, both are outstanding calibers, both will take any game animal found on the North American continent...

Maybe we're really comparing these... :hmm:

 

[harryo]

the italian guns ive been in contact with really have varied quite a bit as to quality. some have been embarrasingly bad (a traditions rifle

Traditions rifles are Spanish made. Generally, the Spanish muzzleloaders seem to be of lower quality than the Italian ones.

 

[flaming canvas]

A flinte, a flinte, my kingdome for a flinte.


After 27 years as a teacher, I would be getting the best end of that deal.

 

[n8dawg6]

the italian guns ive been in contact with really have varied quite a bit as to quality. some have been embarrasingly bad (a traditions rifle

Traditions rifles are Spanish made. Generally, the Spanish muzzleloaders seem to be of lower quality than the Italian ones.

you know, i dont think that i had ever known that. but now that you mention it, it makes sense. i have a cva, and its pretty rough around the edges. plastic trigger, i hate that. :cursing: i also have a euroarms jp murray carbine and, come to think of it, the jp murray really is made a little better than the cva. but it has a plastic trigger too . . . with a mold line going right down the middle. ugh! :cursing:

so youre telling me that a lyman gpr is going to be a step above that cva? sorry, btw, i know that this has strayed a bit from the original topic.

 

[Uncle Jed]

also, ill be casting my bullets, so lead costs arent a big deal. :hmm:

Now you'll get a heapin' helpin' more balls per pound of lead with the .50 caliber than you will with the .54 ball, so if'n you're a poor mountaineer like meself, you'll want to milk out every last shot from your dollars spent. Who knows, one of them "extra" roundballs might be the one to bring up that bubblin crude.
.490 (177 grains) = 39.5 balls per pound, compaired to .530 (224 grains) = 31.2 balls per pound

 

[Bob Gular]

I shoot both but if I was limited to one or the other I would take the 54. Those extra grains deliver much better downrange energy.

 

[RiverRat]

There was a time that I would lust after a Pirazzi shotgun. :bow:

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu should recall that the famous Mountain Man, and explorer, Jim Bridger, used a .54 Hawken rifle. His powder measure threw 50 grains of 3F. He was quoted in a biography late in life as saying that he used one measure when shooting deer and antelope, two measures when he was shooting black bear, elk, and mountain lion, and three measures when he went hunting Grizzly bear or buffalo. Jim was interested in recovering his lead from the animals he shot, which is why his loads seem to be on the light side. Lead was hard to come by, but spent balls could be recast. 50 grains makes a light load for target work, but I would raise that to the 70-90 grain level for hunting, and let the ball go through both sides. Bridger was an expert tracker. Very few modern shooters are, and need all the blood dripping out of an animal they can get to find the animal down 25 yds away!

 

[bulletman]

Bridger used 150 grains of FFF ?.....there are folks around here that would attempt to jump his butt right here on the board for that load being above recomendation from the manufacturer, But being Jim Bridger, he would probly pound the first guy that opened his mouth, then scalp him, and ban him from the mountains. :rotf:

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Me be thinking, that for hunting, the 54.
Seems the bigger the cal, the more knockdown.
The smaller the cal, the more accurate.

I went from 54 20 years ago, to 50, then to 45. Dont hunt, jsut rondy shoot. Can never go back to the 54.

My arms thanks me.