To load Charleville/Brown Bess?

[arilar]

Hi fellows,
Got myself to original muskets last week :grin: . One Charleville 1777 cal.69 and one Swedish-stocked Brown Bess with Short Land Pattern barrel cal.78.I am lazy and thought I could make a short-cut asking you what bullet-patches and BP to use as a start :hmm: .
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[musketman]

They would load the same as a rifle...

• Powder
  Lubed Patched
  Roundball

Flintlocks mostly require real black powder to set them off consistently, the b/p substitutes have a higher ignition rate and are not well suited for flint guns...

 

[rschissler]

"Original muskets", you mean the real thing and not reproductions?

 

[arilar]

Thanks för advice Musketman :bow: ,
For the moment I use an original Swedish musket m.1826. I am just a target-shooter in plus-temperature. My m.1826 has caliber .73 and likes 58 grains of Swiss ffg, same volyme of Polenta on top and a .695 bullet out of a Jeff Tanner-mould. I am using a Chris Tanner patch cal.0.030 soaked in tap-water.
My Charleville barrel measures 0.690 and the Short Land Pattern barrel .780.
I was wondering if any of you has experience and would like to share a "recipe".
Regards,
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[arilar]

"Original muskets", you mean the real thing and not reproductions?

Hi Rschissler,
I am not sure I understand what you mean but my Charleville m.1777( shortened infantry-model 1777, An IX corrige first version, for Voltigeur) is made "An X" as marked on the stock(as I understand between 23 of September 1801 and 22 of September 1802). My "Brown Bess" has a barrel made after 1786 and with all BrownBess parts put together probably in Sweden 1809 using a Swedish birch-stock.
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[Russianblood]

I think that means they are originals. :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Originally made guns were made by manufacturers of the time period they represent. Reproductions are guns made recently, but are made to look like the older, original guns. You apparently have two original guns. Most Americans are not shooting original guns of any kind. They are worth too much money as a collector piece to be shooting, if they have all their parts, are not corroded, and are in working condition. And, no one would shoot an original if an replica is available for shooting. The powders we use are much stronger than anything made 100-200 years ago, and the steel we now make firearms out of is much superior in strength than the irons they used back then. It is just safer to shoot a modern made replica, even if you do have an original in good shape. That does not mean you should shoot the old guns. Taken care of, they can shoot for many more years to come. Just check them frequently for wear, as everything wears out eventually.
Guten Tacht

 

[arilar]

Hi Guten,
Well...over here in Sweden its easier and less expensive to find an original flintlock-musket compared to a Pedersoli repro. I was just curious if anyone had example of loadingdata to share?
Lets say if someone had a proposal how to load a Pedersoli Charleville 1777 cal..69 or repro Brown Bess cal..78?
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

Just a question, Why are you using the polenta (cornmeal)? Is it as a spacer or filler. Basic starting loads would, be one grain of powder per caliber, so the Bess would be about 78/80 gr. with a patched .770 ball (approximately), though a lot of military guns were not patched, it was fron the paper cartridge, and was tear carteidge, prime pan, ram ball, with rest pf paper cartridge down barrel, cock musket, take aim, and fire. Bill

 

[arilar]

Thanks Bill,
Polenta? Well, trial and error. Not by me, instead what the man that holds World record in Smoothbore flintlock musket (MLAIC) has adviced me. And it works!
I guess 80 grains reduced by 20%, because I use Swiss powder may be a start. Maybe .770 bullet can be a little to big? I seems to like loose patched in my Swedish m.1826. You see, I dont do reenactment or hunting. Just paper-shooting at 50 meters and want as tight group as possible.
I am a little surprised so few on this Forum shoot Charleville or Brown Bess. Thought they were popular in the New World!
Regards,
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[J.D.]

Those muskets sound pretty nice. Few people in the U.S. can afford to shoot originals, as they are so expensive here. However, since shooting originals are the norm in Sweden, shoot well. :winking:

A lot of readers shoot brown bess muskets, but relatively few of us shoot originals, nor do we usually shoot paper, preferring to hunt, or to shoot metal silhouette type targets.

I have found that as a rule of thumb, the bore diameter minus the ball diameter, divided by two should give a place to begin choosing a patch thickness.

You may have to convert to metric, but two examples: .78 caliber-.740 ball=.040/2=.020 starting patch thickness. A .025-.030 patch will compact, providing a more accurate load, and still be pretty easy to start into the muzzle.

.780-.750=.030/2=.015 thick patch.
Again a .020-.025 thick patch would provide a tighter combination, and probably better accuracy.

For the 50 meter range, an 60-80 gr. charge of Swiss 1.5 F, or 50-80 gr. of FFG Swiss should provide good accuracy.

My best round ball load in my Petersoli brown bess, which has a bore diameter of .748, is 80 gr. FFG Goex, .715 ball with a .017 thick patch. I have taken a couple of deer and won several smootbore matches, shooting at metalic targets of various sizes, placed at ranges from 15 to 100 yards with this load.
J.D.

 

[musketman]

I am a little surprised so few on this Forum shoot Charleville or Brown Bess.

There are many brown bess shooters on this forum, I myself shoot one...

I guessing they just didn't see your question yet...

 

[mikee51848]

I am a little surprised so few on this Forum shoot Charleville or Brown Bess.

There are many brown bess shooters on this forum, I myself shoot one...

I guessing they just didn't see your question yet...

I for one, am stunned that your shooting an original Bess :shocked2: . Just how easy is an original Bess to come by in Sweden?? You're liable to have a planeload of guys coming over.

 

[Homesteader]

"I am a little surprised so few on this Forum shoot Charleville or Brown Bess. "

I've been shooting my Bess almost exclusively since I got it. I'm still far too new at it, still working out my own loads, to give anyone any advice. It's a lot of fun, though. Good luck, and have a blast! :grin:

 

[riarcher]

I'm shooting a Pedersoli Bess and have been watching this post to see what poped up.
I'm leary of offering my load as a ref. because it couldbe a bit overwhelming in an old original.
However, In the Dixie Gun Works catalog they list a "Standard Muzzleloading Charges (for original guns)". Accordingly, they list a .730 ball and 80 gr. FFg as an original load.
I have seen several originals. Some were barely worth anything even as a wall hanger, while a few were in such excellent (eyeball) condition they barely looked used. Three of the folks use and fire blank charges in parades. Two of them use them for target work at local clubs and say they're very pleased with the results they're getting on the paper (50 yds.)for a musket (whatever that meant).
Personnally, if I had a original,, in fine condition,, I'd use it too. That is what it was made for,,, not decorations or bragging rights.
If the wood isn't dried out, everythin's tight that shouldbe tight, and the barrel isnt bent or rusted close,,, why not shoot it? Wouldn't abuse it, and probably baby the he!! out of it,, but I'd still use it.
Good luck and enjoy.

 

[arilar]

I for one, am stunned that your shooting an original Bess :shocked2: . Just how easy is an original Bess to come by in Sweden?? You're liable to have a planeload of guys coming over.
[/quote]
Sorry,
Should have been more precise. Brown Bess original hard to find in Sweden, Charleville original very, very hard to find. Swedish original flintlock-muskets easy to find.
Sorry if I gave you hopes :v .
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[arilar]

If the wood isn't dried out, everythin's tight that shouldbe tight, and the barrel isnt bent or rusted close,,, why not shoot it? Wouldn't abuse it, and probably baby the he!! out of it,, but I'd still use it.
Good luck and enjoy.

Well,
My "Brown Bess" is in excellent condition. Made out of Brown Bess parts but with a Swedish birch-stock, put together probably between 1809-1812. I will certainly see what results I can achieve in spring-time! Has to make an order on molds to Mr. Tanner!!
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[arilar]

Thanks JD,
Pretty good advices that I will try in my "Bess".
And thanks Paulvallandigham for your very good article on flintlock-shooting that I found through your profile :v .
ARILAR :grin: :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are welcome. I know that Spring comes a little later to Sweden than to most of the USA, but please let us know how that old gun shoots when you do get her out to the range. We all are interested in the performance of old guns- that is why we got into muzzleloading for the most part- and most of us are still astounded to hear that there are old Swedish made military muskets ( smoothbores) available that may be similar in caliber to the British Brown Bess that we know so well from our own Revolutionary War history. Our knowledge of Swedish military history is more than a little thin, simply because it is not taught, even at the college level in most Universities. And, that means we also don't know much about Swedish armaments. I am the proud owner of an 1896 Model Swedish mauser, made in 1900, which shoots so much better with modern ammo, that its makers must surely be beeming down from heaven at their fine work. But, that is as far as my personal knowledge of older Swedish rifles goes.

 

[robinghewitt]

My old Bess had the touch hole worn out to 1/8" and I found I could load BP with a shovel and still not get that involuntary step backwards when I shot it. Welded it shut and drilled something smaller and it works a treat.

There is a theory that the best load is "if you put any more in you'd rather not shoot it".

Doubt you'll shoot the Bess much, the Charlesville will be more accurate.

best regards

Squire Robin