TOUCH HOLE LINERS

Forgive me if this is a repeat question, but I found nothing in the search:

What are your opinions on touch hole liners? I have heard they can be dangerous and can become a projectile. It seems to me they are shaped like a mini shaped charge.

I am saving to get a flinter, but they all seem to use touch hole liners except Caywood.

 

[cayugad]

I have read that vent liners can come out, but I have never seen it. The ones in my rifles are screwed in, much like a nipple on a cap lock. Also with the large opening into the breech I would think it would have to be plugged to develop any back pressure enough to blow it out as a projectile. If it was plugged that bad, I do not see how a spark could make it into the breech to ignite the main charge in the first place.

Granted I am a new flintlock shooter, but I really do not fear the vent liner. I just make sure there is nothing or no one on that side of the rifle when I shoot...

 

Surprised you didn't find anything in the search... this topic has been discussed quite recently.

I've never heard of one "becoming a projectile", and both of my flinters have them, and I'm sure you'll probably find most flinters do. Some believe in them, some don't, but they are definitely safe. I can't imagine one being blown out of the barrel, unless the barrel was completely plugged both at the muzzle AND at the vent hole, in which case, how is the powder going to ignite?

 

[Zonie]

The only way I can envision a liner blowing out is if the threads were worn out to the point that they were just barely there on the liner, in the barrel or both.
If the threads meet the typical thread requirement, they should be safe.
I think I saw an article about a barrel recall by a major maker because some barrels were sold with "defective threads". I don't think they said what the defect was, but it very easily could have been a oversize tap drill was used to drill the hole. Tapping a oversize hole could leave almost no threads there when the operation was complete.

Assuming the threads are good, the only other way the liner could blow out is for it to not be screwed in. If this happened, you would have great difficulty getting the lock to fit because the liner would be in the way of it.
(The lock fits tightly against the side of the barrel when properly installed and most liners are larger than the open area of the pan with the frizzen up).

IMO, the presence of a vent liner is nothing to be concerned about unless your "into" being Period Correct. Most original guns did not have vent liners.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

IMO, the presence of a vent liner is nothing to be concerned about unless your "into" being Period Correct. Most original guns did not have vent liners.

According to Chuck Dixon's book there were liners in the upper end guns. Post Golden age maybe they lined the older ones as they wore out.

 

I do know of an intance when a touch-hole liner was blown out,.... a buddy of mine had this happen when he shot at an antelope, he said it sounded rather odd, then noticed the liner was miss'n.

He came to my house for a new touch-hole liner and while he was ther we discussed what happened over a beer. He said it really didn't surprise him much because most of the threads were almost gone on the 6-year-old liner. The threads in the barrel appeared to be OK!!

So,.... it can happen!! :m2c:

YMHS rollingb

 

[Wart]

I've not heard of any liners blowing out of flinters ... yes, I've seen percussion blow the nipple or drum.

A friend just received a new flinter ... it has a "white lightning" liner ... I can't get over how fast this gun goes off. I'm thinking of putting one of these in my smoothy now.

 

[Howard]

If you're shooting alot, it's probably a good idea to replace the touchhole liner once a year. Same goes for caplock nipples and in-line breech plugs.
:m2c:

 

[LRB]

Properly installed, a stainless liner will last for many years, and will only need changing when the vent burns out too large

 

[OldHilljack]

I have never talked to any one that has had a liner blow out of a barrel...Liners go back a long ways, the English had used several types of metals that were corrosion resistant...Platinum and Gold for two that were used...

Most vents installed are covered by part if the pan or lock (atleast mine are) for it to blow out would require the lock to be blow from the rifle...And I would suspect that the blow by from the threads would be terrible...This is caused by repeated removal and replacement...And there will be grit and combustion by products that will be in the first part or couple of threads in the liner...

It is the belief of some people that they need to take out the vent everytime they shoot...But if they flush the barrel by anyone of several methods the need to remove it is gone...And if you had an original with the vent drilled and coned in the barrel, you couldn't take that out...

Thanks for reading my thoughts and opinions...

OHJ

 

[dlemaster]

I have used touchhole liners for years and never had any problems but recently I read about how dangerous they can be while on the Caywood site. I remember reading in a Machinist Manual many years ago about the strength of threads and how much weight or pressure it would take to shear off the threads, and I don't think there is too much to worry about unless there would be something going on to drastically raise pressures above the normal BP pressure we encounter. But then again I don't remove touchhole liners very often once installed and treated with an anti-seize compound. I like to have them just in case I would load a ball without a powder charge (haven't done that in a while).
I know that Wallace Gusler and the apprentices at the Williamsburg Gun Shop installed gold touchhole liners on their rifles, as they melted down their class rings for the gold and gold is a lot softer than the mild steel used in touchhole liners.
Just my $.02 worth.

Regards, Dave

 

[rich pierce]

Old Hilljack is right on the money. Removable touch hole liners are a new phenomenon. They are not traditional and in my opinion, touch hole liners should all be installed permanently and never removed until/unless they are burned out. It is unheard-of for a permanently installed touch hole liner to blow out. This is a case where a newer "improvement" (removable touch hole liner) is not only unnecessary but can become unsafe.

 

[Wart]

But then again I don't remove touchhole liners very often once installed and treated with an anti-seize compound. I like to have them just in case I would load a ball without a powder charge (haven't done that in a while).

Should this happen, you need not remove the liner .... just use 4f and your pick to get a few grains behind the ball. It doesn't take much to do this ... just make sure your ball is seated before you try shooting it out.

 

[roundball]

I have used touchhole liners for years and never had any problems but recently I read about how dangerous they can be while on the Caywood site.

I remember reading in a Machinist Manual many years ago about the strength of threads and how much weight or pressure it would take to shear off the threads, and I don't think there is too much to worry about unless there would be something going on to drastically raise pressures above the normal BP pressure we encounter.

FWIW, I've often thought that the comment on the Caywood site might be just a little bit of self serving advertisement for their products...you never know.

I remove & clean my liners and threaded seat after every weekend shoot while cleaning the rifle...inspect them and the seat closely, lube & reinstall them.

I've got 1000-1200 shots through each of three rilfes so far and haven't noticed anything...they still look new, and screw back in with the same feel, no indication of looseness developing, etc.

I don't know what would cause one to "blow out" as long as there's no indication of looseness / sloppiness developing when you screw one back in

 

[2172]

I have liners on all my flinters, and find them convenient. I know that if I need to get some powder in behind a dry loaded ball, I can, as I can move the ball that'll be blocking the touch hole, and I know that if the touch hole eventually burns out, I can replace it. I have never heard of one blowing out. As to becoming a projectile, won't the closed pan/frizzen block its trajectory?
I remove the liners as part of the cleaning process. Hank

 

[RussB]

Same what Hank said. I just can't imagine how it would get by the frizzen. ::

Russ

 

Wow! Great comments. I feel a lot better (and smarter) now! Thanks!!!
:redthumb: :thumbsup: :redthumb: :thumbsup: :redthumb:

 

RussB,.... The frizzen is open when the gun fires, and Chuck B. had deepened his Siler pan with a dremel try'n to git more "flash" from his prime'n without have'n a fuse-effect with a large prime cover'n the hole. He thot this would help him deal with our Wyoming wind. Ther really wasn't anythin on the lock prevent'n the touchhole from blow'n out.

So, modifications were made to the lock prior to the touch-hole be'n blown out. I never did see the threads on the liner thet he lost.

This is the only "instance" of such a thing happen'n thet I know of, but I've often wondered what would have happened if the pan hadn't been modified,.... would the lock have retained the bad liner with no damage done to the rifle????

YMHS
rollingb

 

The likelyhood of a vent liner blowing out is exactly the same as the likelyhood of a drum and nipple, using the same thread size, blowing off. It is also the same as the likelyhood of the cleanout screw on any percussion bolster blowing out.

I have had many people bring ML guns into my shop with brass and aluminum screws plugging the cleanout screw hole. They have used them like this for years and sometimes seemed insulted that I replaced them with safer steel screws without being asked too.

You also have that big threaded thing at the back of the gun called a breechplug! The fine threads on the liner is probably stronger psi than the breechplug.

:results:

 

[Stumpkiller]

My thoughts on this are: you don't buy a new pair of jeans and sew patches on the knees. You wear the jeans until they need knee patches and then you add them. Unless the seat goes out first, and then the knee patches would never be an issue.

One of my flinters had a vent liner but I never removed it. Two of my flinters had no vent liners and they were never missed. No erosion and the vent made properly to begin with so none was required. If I had a gun that showed signs of erosion I would then think about having a replacement vent installed by way of a liner.