TOUCH HOLE LINERS

Ghost,.... I agree with you 100%, and as I mentioned in my earlier post,.... Chuck B. "knew" the threads on his old liner were bad!! (he jest put off replace'n it until it was finally "blown out")

YMHS
rollingb

 

[silverfox]

rollinb: This may be off base with blowing a vent liner. being fairly new to Flintlocks I would be more worried about blowing the flint out of the cockjaws. I had that happen maybe just a fluke? But that blast against the side of your flint is another reason to make sure nobody is on the wrong side when shooting a flintlock. I don't see how a liner could come out unless as you said something was bad worn or the wrong size in the first place. Won't the cone shape force the treads tighter like a minie ball unless something was wrong with the treads? Just my opinion.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

rollinb: This may be off base with blowing a vent liner. being fairly new to Flintlocks I would be more worried about blowing the flint out of the cockjaws. I had that happen maybe just a fluke? But that blast against the side of your flint is another reason to make sure nobody is on the wrong side when shooting a flintlock. I don't see how a liner could come out unless as you said something was bad worn or the wrong size in the first place. Won't the cone shape force the treads tighter like a minie ball unless something was wrong with the treads? Just my opinion.
Fox :thumbsup:

Silverfox,.... Ordinarly what you say about the vent liner is true, and a good example of "why" vent liners should not be removed each time a fella cleans his gun. I cain't help but think some sort of "minor wear" is the result of frequent removal,.... combine this "minor wear" with constant removal over a period of 6 yrears (as Chuck B. did), and sumpthin is liable to happen when fire'n the muzzleloader.

Like I said, I've always wondered "what" would have happened (damage to the lock, lock mortise, or lock bolts) if he hadn't also modified his Siler lock by make'n the pan deeper to hold more prime'n.

I don't think worn threads are safe (under pressure) regardless of whether they are on a drum, barrel, or vent liner.

I've never "blown a flint" out of the jaws of my flinters, but I do cinch'em down rather tight and use only leather to wrap'em with,..... I don't like "lead" as a flint wrap, 'cause it seems to work loose after fire'n a few shots.

 

[BLAHMAN]

Ghost,.... I agree with you 100%, and as I mentioned in my earlier post,.... Chuck B. "knew" the threads on his old liner were bad!! (he jest put off replace'n it until it was finally "blown out")

YMHS
rollingb

So, is this operator error? Kinda sounds like it. I've never taken my touch holes out for cleaning either, don't plan on it, to be honest.

The cooment that Gost made concnerning the strength of the touch hole threads being stronger than the breech plug is interesting. Why do you suppose that is?

 

Ghost,.... I agree with you 100%, and as I mentioned in my earlier post,.... Chuck B. "knew" the threads on his old liner were bad!! (he jest put off replace'n it until it was finally "blown out")

YMHS
rollingb

So, is this operator error? Kinda sounds like it. I've never taken my touch holes out for cleaning either, don't plan on it, to be honest.

The cooment that Gost made concnerning the strength of the touch hole threads being stronger than the breech plug is interesting. Why do you suppose that is?

BLAHMAN,.... Yep!!.. Chuck's experience was 100% "operator error", and he would be the first one to admit it!! :haha:

As for the touch-hole threads be'n stronger then the breech-plug threads,.... thet's a matter of opinion, the "difference" be'n, are "lots" of fine threads stronger then "fewer" courser threads?? (IMHO ther's probably not much difference in regards to "shear strength" of either type!! :

YMHS
rollingb

 

[BLAHMAN]

Oh, let me ask this, was Chuck taking the touchhole liner out all the time for cleaning purposes? Or was the touchhole of poor quality that allowed for the threads to erode?

Hmmmmmm, makes one wonder......

 

[MikeChapin]

I've never seen a touch hole liner blow out. I have seen a couple of powder drums let go. One on a homemade rifle and the other on a CVA. The fella on the homemade had overtightened the threads. Don't know what the problem on the CVA was.

I have liners in all three of my flinters and will have liners in the two on the workbench. I install them "perminantly". I have had to change out the one on my 36 when it had eroded so much that I was spraying people ten feet down the firing line.
::

 

[Birddog6]

Since there is allot of discussion on this, I will tell you of one that could possibly blow out.

I had this rifle built in the white some time ago, & when I got it I checked the work of the builder this is what I found.

What I found was a oblong hole & no threads on 2 saids of the hole at all, and just 1/2 threads on 2 sides...... Needless to say I was VERY upset over this. No I dodn't expect the work to be perfect, but to me this is a place you DO NOT make an error on.

IMHO, he drilled the vent liner hole & had the breechplug in the barrel, the drill bit hit the face of the breechplug & elongated the hole. Rather than remove the breechplug & re-drill it to the next size, he went ahead & threaded the hole. So it ended up with no threads on 2 sides & not full threads on the threaded sides. He should have removed the breechplug & drilled the hole to the next size larger vent & etc.

So........... IMHO, when you drill the vent in a rifle. DO NOT have the breechplug in the breech...... Period......

Make sure you drill the correct size hole for the tap........

Make sure you are drilling Straight.......... If it is a swamped barrel, shim the swamp up to where the drilling surface is FLAT so the drill bit is drilling at exactly 90 degrees to the barrel flat.......

Personally, I also tap the vent in this same position in the drill press right after I drill it, by chucking the tap in the drill press, put a lil down pressure on the drill control arm & turn the chuck by hand. This way I know it is going in straight & not canted in any way.. I tap a lil, back it out, tap a lil, back it out... etc., taking my time & getting nice full clean threads.

:results:

 

[B.Habermehl]

Birddog, I agree with you. But will add a point ot two. I no longer will install (removable) vent liners, That is with screwdriver slots or allen wrench sockets. I only will use White lightnings or the wrench installed ampco. Why? because I had a customer bring back a gun some years after it was built, along with some ill advised modifications, the touch hole liner was replaced, and was cross threaded somewhwere along the line, resulting in gass cutting across the threads. What a mess from a builders stand point. And from a liability stand point down right scarey. NO MORE CUSTOMER REMOVABLE LINERS IN ANY OF MY WORK AGAIN!! Sorry for the shouting, but I feel a bit strongly about this. BJH

 

[Birddog6]

Regardless of what type ya put in there, you cannot make it idiot proof......

:m2c:

 

[talon]

Amen to that. :agree:

 

[tg]

I dunno..the Fusil I just finished has a plain ol' hole conned from the inside with a flatened nail....don't think it will ever blow out, don't know how fast it is but I would bet it is on par with the originals?

 

[Rat]

White lightning non-removeable....'nuff said!!

:master:

Faster than rising gas prices!

:cry:

When the Birddog6 first suggested that for my Jeager, Brown Rosie, I couldn't understand the reason for a non-removeable plug. But he eddy-cated me on that. Now if they could just make an idiot-proof rifle kit, right Dawg?

Now everytime I shoot the darn thing, I reach in my pocket for a cap. I believe it's about as fast as flint ignition gets.

Having said all that, my Brown Bess has no liner, just a big hole, (which I slightly coned on the outside) and ignition is quite fast on that gun...not instant like the Jaeger, but still very fast.

Rat

 

[tg]

"Typically only the better quality London made guns were factory fitted with vent liners, but nearly all flint guns were later fitted with vent liners, after the vent hole in the barrel became worn from flash erosion, corrosion, or the aggressive use of a vent pick"

I found this statement to be interesting, it refers to original guns, any thoughts on how accurate the statement is from a historical standpoint?

 

[LRB]

Just something to ponder. Assuming one uses reasonable care, what is the difference between removing a liner in gun cleaning, and removing a nipple on a cap lock to clean.

 

[roundball]

Just something to ponder. Assuming one uses reasonable care, what is the difference between removing a liner in gun cleaning, and removing a nipple on a cap lock to clean.

FWIW, I view them the same...I remove, clean, lube, reinstall nipples & vent liners whenever I clean a rifle.

 

[tg]

I would suspect that there is no practical difference, and caplocks can be cleaned with nipple in place also, with a drum system you do have a replaceable member between the nipple and barrrel, I think this is one of those things that a line is drawn in the sand and both sides seem to do well with the method they choose, I have decided to go with a plain hole from now on just to try and duplicate the function of the originals more closely.... I have not had a chance to try out the new Fusil yet, I hope to get time in the next month to try some .535/.550 and .562 balls with a variety of patching/wadding...and hope the 5/64 hole and stiff trigger pull is faster than my flinch time.

 

[Kaw Trooper]

What is the best screw driver to remove the vent liner? A brand name or a style and where to buy them. Thanks.

 

[Leonredbeard]

tg,
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet. I have read all of Shumway's articles about the Germanic rifle Heritage. He pointed out that many an old German gun had a flash hole liner made of GOLD! :shocking: Something about a high melting point and a resistance to erosion. You would think it would be too soft to stand up to the pressure. Maybe it is an alloy with a lot of gold in it. Go figure.
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[Rat]

Don't forget that the old guns also often had the touch hole coned from the inside. If you go liner-less you might want to do that for faster ignition. Seems like the best of both worlds, coned on the inside like a liner for fast ignition, but not threads to wonder about. That could also be why a drilled hole did not last forever, and eventually had to be fitted with a liner.

Again, my Brown Bess, "Bloody Bess" just has a big hole in the barrel, not coned on the inside, and ignition time is very good.

Rat