I live not too far from the NP visitor center and have stopped by several times just to view the Chief Joseph leman. It is worth a good viewing. The main thing that strikes me about it is the overall scale... it seems so small, petite if you will. The faux stripes fit well with the rest of the patina of the stock, etc.
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Trade Rifle....kind of
- Thread starter Davemuzz
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It's doubtful that I will ever sell this rifle. Heck....I have my T\C from 1980!!! But Swamprat "planted the seeds" and I was going to make my order today.....but now I may spring the extra $50 and go for the nicer wood.
The crescent's on the Leman's (from LaBonte's post) are really deep!! I like the shape of the stock...hate a patchbox...and the deep crescent just doesn't cut it for me. Probably period correct.....I'll just call mine "re-arsenaled" :shocked2:
BTW, thanks for the pics 54ball. That's a cool looking rifle...well all except the buttplate. :grin:
Dave
The crescent's on the Leman's (from LaBonte's post) are really deep!! I like the shape of the stock...hate a patchbox...and the deep crescent just doesn't cut it for me. Probably period correct.....I'll just call mine "re-arsenaled" :shocked2:
BTW, thanks for the pics 54ball. That's a cool looking rifle...well all except the buttplate. :grin:
Dave
excess650
50 Cal.
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I took a look at TOW's spec on that stock and then at a few buttplates. This might fit the bill http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/673/2/BP-MA-7-B
Yes, its brass, and brass will look proper on that stock. You'll need ramrod pipes, trigger guard, and a nose cap. Brass will take a soft patina with some age and handling (and NO POLISHING).
Yes, its brass, and brass will look proper on that stock. You'll need ramrod pipes, trigger guard, and a nose cap. Brass will take a soft patina with some age and handling (and NO POLISHING).
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OOOOOOOH...... :wink: I'll have to look thru my TOTW catalogue and see what is close to that and comes in steel. Brass is something I really would like to stay away from. Just a personal preference. I haven't touched my T\C brass since 1980...and it's still not my favorite.
I'll search and find a comparable piece that should work.
Thanks
Dave
I'll search and find a comparable piece that should work.
Thanks
Dave
galamb
58 Cal.
As others have said- all kinds of options. Do what you like best.
1. Fake striping. Sometimes on a really plain wood stock, you need to give it a little life. If you are willing to spend a couple of nights hand painting each stripe- not the horrible Leman stuff often seen- then it might improve things. This is what I would call a "faint" stripe. Stain and seal with one thing coat of linseed oil. The linseed oil keeps the stripes from bleeding out in a fuzzy manner on either side. The linseed oil also allows you to wipe off a stripe if you screwed up. Once the stripe has dried you seal over it with more linseed oil. I painted a stripe, waited about a minute or two and lightly wiped off most of it so just a faint stripe remained. The stripes don't stand out that much but they get rid of the plain wood stock issue.
I used a nice color photo of a curly maple stock as a guide in painting the stripes.
I have rifles with both plain triggers and set triggers. Have you ever thought about a plain single trigger pinned in the stock?
I'd mention every thing you plan on doing since the devil is in the details.
No cap box- pretty common with a lot of guns of that time.
1. Fake striping. Sometimes on a really plain wood stock, you need to give it a little life. If you are willing to spend a couple of nights hand painting each stripe- not the horrible Leman stuff often seen- then it might improve things. This is what I would call a "faint" stripe. Stain and seal with one thing coat of linseed oil. The linseed oil keeps the stripes from bleeding out in a fuzzy manner on either side. The linseed oil also allows you to wipe off a stripe if you screwed up. Once the stripe has dried you seal over it with more linseed oil. I painted a stripe, waited about a minute or two and lightly wiped off most of it so just a faint stripe remained. The stripes don't stand out that much but they get rid of the plain wood stock issue.
I used a nice color photo of a curly maple stock as a guide in painting the stripes.
I have rifles with both plain triggers and set triggers. Have you ever thought about a plain single trigger pinned in the stock?
I'd mention every thing you plan on doing since the devil is in the details.
No cap box- pretty common with a lot of guns of that time.
Well, now that excess has "shifted" my thinking towards the buttplate matter....my whole thinking has gone into a conundrum!!
I'm now looking at the drop in comb of the Leman stock compared to the drop in comb of the fullstock and am now thinking the crescent of these Leman's have to be this deep because of the larger drop. Yes? So, if I go with to "flat" of a crescent, the rifle is going to move off of my shoulder when I shoot it. Even though recoil isn't like a modern rifle, there still is recoil.
So....now I'm thinking perhaps I should go back to a Hawken stock with the 3.5" comb drop. The plus in that is I can still buy all of the "goodies" that I like, plus get a buttplate that I like.
The only drawback is....the only in stock right hand Hawken that TOTW has in right now is a walnut one. Their description states: We strongly recommend straight grain maple for large bores. so my question would now be......is my lowly 50 caliber considered a "big bore"? I'm thinking no.....but I need some input here.
So:
1- I don't really want to put a deep crescent buttplate on my rifle, and I think if I buy the Leman stock I may have to with the steep 4.5" comb drop. Yes? No?
2- Should I decide to go with the Hawken stock (which I OK with) would the walnut stock hold up well over a life time of shooting a 50 caliber conical?
And BTW, none of you fellows has tossed a wrench into my thinking in a bad way. Planning is key in execution to any good game plan. When I worked for a living, planning was simply what I\we did before any job we did. If planning was done half....donkey up front....then the job always came out that way.
Again, thanks.
Dave
I'm now looking at the drop in comb of the Leman stock compared to the drop in comb of the fullstock and am now thinking the crescent of these Leman's have to be this deep because of the larger drop. Yes? So, if I go with to "flat" of a crescent, the rifle is going to move off of my shoulder when I shoot it. Even though recoil isn't like a modern rifle, there still is recoil.
So....now I'm thinking perhaps I should go back to a Hawken stock with the 3.5" comb drop. The plus in that is I can still buy all of the "goodies" that I like, plus get a buttplate that I like.
The only drawback is....the only in stock right hand Hawken that TOTW has in right now is a walnut one. Their description states: We strongly recommend straight grain maple for large bores. so my question would now be......is my lowly 50 caliber considered a "big bore"? I'm thinking no.....but I need some input here.
So:
1- I don't really want to put a deep crescent buttplate on my rifle, and I think if I buy the Leman stock I may have to with the steep 4.5" comb drop. Yes? No?
2- Should I decide to go with the Hawken stock (which I OK with) would the walnut stock hold up well over a life time of shooting a 50 caliber conical?
And BTW, none of you fellows has tossed a wrench into my thinking in a bad way. Planning is key in execution to any good game plan. When I worked for a living, planning was simply what I\we did before any job we did. If planning was done half....donkey up front....then the job always came out that way.
Again, thanks.
Dave
1. No.
2. Yes.
A flat butt plate fit's on your shoulder, a crescent butt fit's on your upper arm.(more into your armpit)
TOTW is not the only suppliers of stocks.
2. Yes.
A flat butt plate fit's on your shoulder, a crescent butt fit's on your upper arm.(more into your armpit)
TOTW is not the only suppliers of stocks.
galamb
58 Cal.
Agree -
No, you don't need a deep crescent just because the drop at the heel is more extreme on rifle "a" compared to "b".
The butt plate is tied to the original you are trying to emulate and with a maker like Leman you have a wide expanse of choices - his style changed over the years and from model to model.
Yes, Walnut (Black, North American in this case) is very strong. Perhaps not as pretty as European, but on a stock should easily outlive you.
And in the relative scheme of things, a 50 cal can barely be classed as a "large bore".
One final note on that - there was Walnut stocked Hawken rifles, so it's viable and correct if that's the style you ultimately pick.
A further suggestion here. Take some more time to decide unless you plan on another rifle in short order. Then pick one and don't look back.
When I started, my first build was a half-stock Hawken. I just had to have one. I worked from a "board" so after getting the blank cut out there was enough wood left for a second blank so I cut out a full stock blank that would accommodate a 36" barrel (no sense wasting the wood).
The more I worked on the Hawken, the more I glanced at that full stock blank.
Long story short, I shot the full stock Ohio (that came from my leftover "Hawken" board) for fully two years before I even finished the Hawken - which was sold within months of completion.
Most think of Vincent's when you say "Ohio". Their butt plates redefine "crescent". But there were dozens of Ohio makers. I just chose a style that better suited me.
Maybe make a list, without considering style, of what you want/like/have to have.
It may be something like:
relatively flat butt plate
iron furniture
32" straight barrel in 50 cal
little drop in the comb line
3 1/2" drop at the heel
etc
That may lead you to a style you have never considered.
And if Track doesn't have what you are after, try Knob Mountain (recently mentioned). Most of Dave's stocks are patterned after original rifles, and he has "lots" of patterns.
You can check them out here (Knob Mountain Stocks)
No, you don't need a deep crescent just because the drop at the heel is more extreme on rifle "a" compared to "b".
The butt plate is tied to the original you are trying to emulate and with a maker like Leman you have a wide expanse of choices - his style changed over the years and from model to model.
Yes, Walnut (Black, North American in this case) is very strong. Perhaps not as pretty as European, but on a stock should easily outlive you.
And in the relative scheme of things, a 50 cal can barely be classed as a "large bore".
One final note on that - there was Walnut stocked Hawken rifles, so it's viable and correct if that's the style you ultimately pick.
A further suggestion here. Take some more time to decide unless you plan on another rifle in short order. Then pick one and don't look back.
When I started, my first build was a half-stock Hawken. I just had to have one. I worked from a "board" so after getting the blank cut out there was enough wood left for a second blank so I cut out a full stock blank that would accommodate a 36" barrel (no sense wasting the wood).
The more I worked on the Hawken, the more I glanced at that full stock blank.
Long story short, I shot the full stock Ohio (that came from my leftover "Hawken" board) for fully two years before I even finished the Hawken - which was sold within months of completion.
Most think of Vincent's when you say "Ohio". Their butt plates redefine "crescent". But there were dozens of Ohio makers. I just chose a style that better suited me.
Maybe make a list, without considering style, of what you want/like/have to have.
It may be something like:
relatively flat butt plate
iron furniture
32" straight barrel in 50 cal
little drop in the comb line
3 1/2" drop at the heel
etc
That may lead you to a style you have never considered.
And if Track doesn't have what you are after, try Knob Mountain (recently mentioned). Most of Dave's stocks are patterned after original rifles, and he has "lots" of patterns.
You can check them out here (Knob Mountain Stocks)
excess650
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2009
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Dave,
You've chosen a good name for this thread. I've actually been thinking about something along these lines for a while, and this thread encouraged me to proceed.....a friend had a precarved piece of curly maple with 36" 15/16" .54 GM barrel inlet. Its now in my basement awaiting the other parts. I have some spare locks, but none I think suitable for what I've envisioned. I'm going with brass and will use the Lehman guard and single trigger. I like the look of the Davis Late Ketland for this build.
You've chosen a good name for this thread. I've actually been thinking about something along these lines for a while, and this thread encouraged me to proceed.....a friend had a precarved piece of curly maple with 36" 15/16" .54 GM barrel inlet. Its now in my basement awaiting the other parts. I have some spare locks, but none I think suitable for what I've envisioned. I'm going with brass and will use the Lehman guard and single trigger. I like the look of the Davis Late Ketland for this build.
Yeah....after "sleeping" on it, (and I do nap often :haha: ) I do like the Leman "look" and I believe I will find a right fit cast steel buttplate that will work for me.
And I do agree that the 50 caliber is barely creeping into the "large bore" category when it comes to BP rifles.
I'll need to make my order soon. Then I won't look back!! :hatsoff:
Dave
And I do agree that the 50 caliber is barely creeping into the "large bore" category when it comes to BP rifles.
I'll need to make my order soon. Then I won't look back!! :hatsoff:
Dave
galamb
58 Cal.
There you go.
Besides, you are in Pittsburgh. That's what, a couple hundred miles from where the Leman factory was??
Isn't there practically some kind of law that you should own at least one "historically local" firearm???
Besides, you are in Pittsburgh. That's what, a couple hundred miles from where the Leman factory was??
Isn't there practically some kind of law that you should own at least one "historically local" firearm???
excess650 said:
Leman Trade rifle. This is what they had in stock....plus what my "gut" told me to go with first. After all these years, I find what my "gut" tells me is usually the right thing to do.
I ordered it today and it will be shipped tomorrow. I will still have a few things to get for it, like a toeplate, ventliner, ramrod pipes, and the blueing chemicals, but all in due time. After building my pistol, I know all of this takes time. I'm in no rush....and that's a good place to be in. :thumbsup:
Dave
