traditionalist - Are we Loosing the Battle

[cannonball1]

Not trying to challenge you but genuinely interested in where this has happened?

ME TOO! In our state the Wildlife Board keeps making primitive hunting more "Liberal" so to speak. More technology allowed on archery and ML.

 

[cannonball1]

By the way you whitetail hunter don't even understand the western mule deer problem. With the majority of the land public and the declining numbers of mule deer and yes increasing number of hunter applying. Any fair unit you apply for you may be hunting only once in two to three years.

 

[SDSmlf]

I would like to see more Conservation departments create a new hunting season for long bows and flint locks using PRB ONLY. I think that may get more hunters interested in the traditional gear and may just make some converts.

The ‘new’ season you desire will only happen if there is a demand, and I just don’t see a ‘build it and they will come’ scenario happening. And the demand (read more than just a small unorganized and insignificant group) is just is not there, at least in my opinion. Question for you. What have you done to help the traditional archery crowd get their own season? They want their own season with no muzzleloaders disturbing their quiet time in the woods, not to mention the nasty compound bows and crossbows competing with them. I have run into some of these folks. And there might be more of them than there are traditional muzzleloaders wanting ‘their’ season, I don’t know. Standard answer, ‘not part of that group, so not my concern’, I just want a traditional muzzleloader season...... Personally, I am mostly concerned with what can I hunt with, not with what the other hunters are using. If I want to hunt with my flintlock, and i am allowed to hunt with my flintlock, I’m good good to go, what does it matter what the other guy hunts with? Some will complain about having to add hunter orange to their PC outfit, but that’s even a smaller group. Maybe the traditionally dressed crowd should get their season. No electronic devices or motorized vehicles? Even though anyone that wants to hunt that way, can today (except maybe being required to wear hunter orange). What about the matchlock hunters, rumor has it there a few of those out there.

Get enough people together creating a demand for a specific season and it could happen. Otherwise the conservation departments will follow the votes and the money, at least in my opinion.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I started making a new muzzleloader and have found making these last guns the the quality castings and quality wood are harder to find. When talking to suppliers they said they have to compete with the Orientals for the wood and the old quality parts were cast by by people now in their 80's now and very few have taken up the craft.

Then when I hit the hills to hunt, I find that most of them are shooting 500 yard plus guns that load from the muzzle and that is about all you can say about them. In our state the archers get what they want and the traditionalist get the "shaft". I have tried persuade the Big Game Board to change the hunts around to have the old time muzzleloader hunt available again, but have received deaf ears. The traditionists in our state are so fragmented and agree on nothing so we get nothing.

How do you see it?

It's a matter of numbers.
Traditional numbers are dwindling. The influence we muster dwindles with us.
Call it progress, or maybe just progression, it's going to happen, like it or not.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

Not trying to challenge you but genuinely interested in where this has happened?

Idaho, Oregon, Colorado to one degree or another. Idaho is pretty much "traditional" and nothing else. No inlines, no sabots, no enclosed ignition, no 209 primers, lead projectiles only, no scopes, etc. Colorado is kinda "in between". Not familiar with "every" state, but there may be others. I think Pennsylvania has a "primitive" weapons only season, as well. Louisiana has a primitive weapons season, but it is a joke as it allows break open single shot centerfire cartridge rifles to be used. I guess in Louisiana a single shot centerfire is considered "primitive". Go figure!

 

[firestick]

Yes we are losing ground. The new generation wants it easier, faster and NOW. Have the same issues with bow hunting. More tech, more tech is now the call in the wild. Very, very few traditional BP guns and traditional bows in stores. Even my son gave up traditional archery "cuz I have to practice" he tells me. **** fire hell! Practice is half the damned fun!

 

[CoHiCntry]

Idaho, Oregon, Colorado to one degree or another. Idaho is pretty much "traditional" and nothing else. No inlines, no sabots, no enclosed ignition, no 209 primers, lead projectiles only, no scopes, etc. Colorado is kinda "in between". Not familiar with "every" state, but there may be others. I think Pennsylvania has a "primitive" weapons only season, as well. Louisiana has a primitive weapons season, but it is a joke as it allows break open single shot centerfire cartridge rifles to be used. I guess in Louisiana a single shot centerfire is considered "primitive". Go figure!

You can use an inline in Idaho, Oregon, & Colorado. Each of these states does have some restrictions on ignition, powder, & projectiles though.

It seems as more & more advances are made in the muzzleloader arena, the states are allowing more & more. Some at a slower rate than others. I haven’t personally seen any state go backwards, as in banning certain methods to go back to a more primitive or traditional method.

 

[cannonball1]

Live in Utah and little by little it has changed and is run by the Wildlife Board. One board member had trouble seeing open sights, so then it became a one-power scope. The next few years they voted in an any-power scope. That opened the door to anything loaded through the muzzle. You surrounding states better get organized. For the ol' buckskinners that is hard, but organization is why archers get what they want. They are a powerful organization.

 

[Tanker]

I'm from PA and we have a traditional season. Starts on Dec 26th. I absolutely enjoy the season. I have heard complaints about the season from traditional guys and non. Traditional guys will say rutts over, deer are all spooked, and crazy cold. Non traditional will say why do they get their own season. Every few years I will hear suggestions about making some changes and it gets shot down. I believe in PA the traditional side is strong but I don't think we are getting enough recruitment into traditionals. A local BP shop is crazy busy right now and is every year at this time. So they may disagree with me. I will say this they always have customers in the store when I go there no matter what time of the year. I think the best way to stop a decline is try to start a traditional muzzleloader club. Get people to the meetings and have them bring friends. Introduce them to the sport. I started a club where I live nothing fancy but its getting people to notice that its a good sport. Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

 

[Wmasswolf]

Just by way of encouragement, my 13 year old has been shooting for about a year (MA law makes us wait until 12yrs old.) His first rifle that wasnt a .22lr was a .32 percussion side lock. Below is a pic of him shooting the ml for fun, and the resulting target.

Our club has a 13 weeks of muzzleloader (sidelock/PRB/iron sights only) competition (35 yards off hand at a V target. This competition has quickly become my sons favorite shooting activity.

 

[coredneck]

Not trying to challenge you but genuinely interested in where this has happened?

Colorado is close...(I left a few off as it had to do with bullet weights and not a part of this thread)
3. MUZZLELOADING RIFLES & SMOOTHBORE MUSKETS a. Only legal muzzleloaders allowed in muzzleloading seasons.
b. In-line muzzleloaders are legal.
c. Must be a single barrel that fires a single round ball or conical projectile.
h. Shotshell primers and B.O.R. Lock MZ System bullets are legal.
i. Pelletized powder systems are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
j. Cannot be loaded from the breech during muzzleloading seasons.
k. Only open or iron sights allowed in muzzleloading seasons. Fiber optics and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal. Scopes or any sighting device using artificial light, batteries and electronic gear are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons.
l. Sabots are prohibited during muzzleloading seasons. Cloth patches are not sabots. m. Smokeless powder is prohibited in muzzleloading seasons. Black powder and black-powder substitutes are legal.
n. Electronic or battery-powered devices cannot be incorporated into or attached to muzzleloader during muzzleloading seasons.


oh and crossbows can only be used in rifle season unless you have a handicap permit

 

[Feltwad]

Traditional for me is a gun of no less than 150 years old original not the modern repro which they call traditional .
Feltwad

 

[3 trees]

Over 40 years ago I went to my first shoot! I was hooked for life. At that time my brother in law, Gary Butts, was a field rep for the NMA. I told him what a great time I had had with him and the guys there. He said he felt that muzzlloading had peaked a few years earlier, I laughed and told him that there had to be a million guys out there like me who would love it! Guess what ? He was right! True muzzleloading stores are a thing of the past...

 

[User_Dan]

SNIP

I have tried persuade the Big Game Board to change the hunts around to have the old time muzzleloader hunt available again, but have received deaf ears. The traditionists in our state are so fragmented and agree on nothing so we get nothing.

How do you see it?

General question to all...why does it matter what others hunt with? Cant one be happy hunting with their own method?

 

[FishDFly]

"General question to all...why does it matter what others hunt with? Cant one be happy hunting with their own method?"

Sir, you are correct.

Seems a lot of folks worry about what others are doing. In the end, what others are doing is not important.

 

[rdane]

"General question to all...why does it matter what others hunt with? Cant one be happy hunting with their own method?"

Sir, you are correct.

Seems a lot of folks worry about what others are doing. In the end, what others are doing is not important.

Well said.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I'm another PA guy. There does seem to be a stronger traditional component here than in other states and believe it or not, we do have the support of the Harrisburg staff to keep the late flintlock only season (at least we did recently when I still had the ear of most of those people). We also have an early muzzleloader season in October that's frankly been overrun with "modern" muzzleloaders and you're not going to change that as the state DNR, Fish and Game etc. are typically loath to take away a season once it's been offered. The PGC here has allowed peep sights and more modern bullets in the flintlock season, not to mention that they couldn't really care less that your gun is a reproduction of an 18th or 19th century arm, as long as it loads at the muzzle and fires with a flintlock ignition.

I haven't hunted with a rifle for any species in at least 20 years and other than grouse over my dogs, my hunting even for turkeys and small game is almost always done with a flintlock. I for one would love to see a short, bucks only (or buck and doe) flintlock season during the rut. There are other states that have buck hunting with muzzleloaders then and it's clear that Pennsylvania is losing serious hunters, hunting hours and the ability to really limit or control deer populations to a large degree, so I don't really think this would amount to any biological impact (the archers kill far more buck prior to the breeding season than this limited flintlock only season would), but I think it's probably an uphill battle to get such a season and if they did institute such a season, you'd have archers and rifle hunters losing their minds. I'd love to see it though and intend to hunt in Tennessee with a buddy next year where their regulations allow buck hunting during the rut.

 

[Festus]

Well said.

"General question to all...why does it matter what others hunt with? Cant one be happy hunting with their own method?"

Sir, you are correct.

Seems a lot of folks worry about what others are doing. In the end, what others are doing is not important.

Well in North Dakota we wait for years to draw a muzzleloader tag. The traditional guys are the ones who organized and got these seasons started. It is not what it started out to be at all.

 

[FishDFly]

NMLRA membership:

1970 11,000
1985 27,000
2010 17,000
2016 13,000
2018 16,000
2020 15,000

With the dwindling number of shooters, the NMLRA Western National shoot was canceled.

The number of Territorials continues to be less each year.

Unfortunately, the numbers do not lie.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

talking traditional, think i might kick a hornets nest here, but i really would like to see inlines and crossbows go away. they should be made to use them in regular rifle season. the inlines and cross bows these days are crazy good, way to easy to use.

Hate say it but "wish in one hand..."
Too much money (and influence) involved.