Traditions Hawken 50 Caliber "Iron sight picture" issue help??

[timh]

So I went to the range this weekend to work up some loads with Pyrodex Select and 225gr Hornady SST bullets. I had do adjust the back sight up 8 clicks to get the gun to shoot 1" high at 50yds. It made the sight picture bearable, but still taking a bit to get used to...
This particular rifle seems to like 70 grains of powder. I started with 60, shooting 3 rounds at each load, and only made it to 90 grains before I got 6 misfires in a row. My plan was to get to 100 grains. I ran a lubed and clean patch after each shot but no matter how much "nipple picking" I did, It wouldn't fire. I took it home, pulled the bullet and powder and cleaned everything... I'm going to load a bunch of 70 grains and see if the groupings were a fluke or not. (of the 3 rounds @ 70, the holes were touching each other at 50yds.

Any thoughts are appreciated!!

 

[Frontier's]

6 misfired tells me that the breech is soaked in lube. No need for a lived patch, just a damp spit patch down the bite then a couple dry patches.
Your choice of projectile is not correct for that rifle either.

 

[Carbon 6]

Your choice of projectile is not correct for that rifle either.

Nor is his powder choice.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You had a blocked flash channel. Did you fire a cap or two to see if the channel was clear? Sometimes you have to remove the nipple and put some powder into the drum or breech to get the rifle to fire. With as many shots as you fired, my first thought was that fouling was being pushed into the breech. A slightly dampened patch is sufficient to wipe the bore. After about 6 shots you need to pop a cap to open the flash channel.

 

[bang]

Nothing wrong with Pyrodex. Been using it over 20 years with no issues. Just because someone chooses not to use doesn't make it wrong.
Great you got touching at 50 with choice of projectile typically for faster twist and the 70 load ok. Try some PRBs and see how it performs. 1 inch high will carry out pretty good. Just depends on how far you want to shoot.
Agree on damp patch for swab and keep channel clear.

 

[Zonie]

timh
You might want to go to a store that sells pipes and tobacco and pick up a package of pipe cleaners.
Remove the nipple, dampen the pipe cleaner with water and shove it down thru the hole that connects the nipple hole with the barrel bore, rotating it as you push it in.

This will loosen and remove any built up fouling or crud that has accumulated in the hole.
Be sure to work the pipe cleaner far enough in so it the end of it passes completely thru the hole.

Doing this will greatly reduce any hesitation with the ignition.

 

[timh]

Nothing wrong with Pyrodex. Been using it over 20 years with no issues. Just because someone chooses not to use doesn't make it wrong.
Great you got touching at 50 with choice of projectile typically for faster twist and the 70 load ok. Try some PRBs and see how it performs. 1 inch high will carry out pretty good. Just depends on how far you want to shoot.
Agree on damp patch for swab and keep channel clear.

My ignorance is showing again... What are PRBs?
My "range" since I've gotten older is somewhere between 50-100 yards with iron sights. A bit further with scoped rifles though...

 

[timh]

timh
You might want to go to a store that sells pipes and tobacco and pick up a package of pipe cleaners.
Remove the nipple, dampen the pipe cleaner with water and shove it down thru the hole that connects the nipple hole with the barrel bore, rotating it as you push it in.

This will loosen and remove any built up fouling or crud that has accumulated in the hole.
Be sure to work the pipe cleaner far enough in so it the end of it passes completely thru the hole.

Doing this will greatly reduce any hesitation with the ignition.

thanks for the advice! will do...

 

[bang]

My ignorance is showing again... What are PRBs?
My "range" since I've gotten older is somewhere between 50-100 yards with iron sights. A bit further with scoped rifles though...

Patched Round Ball

 

[Carbon 6]

Nor is his powder choice.

Nobody read my post.
His main problem is the powder he is using. Getting good ignition in a T/C Hawken is hard enough when using Pyrodex P and usually requires a hotshot nipple or some diligent loading and cleaning for consistent ignition.. But, using Pyrodex RS or Select will make the problem even worse. Add in a plastic sabot(yes I said it because he is using it and needs to be educated) and you amplify the problem of breech fouling.

IMO, pryrodex select was developed for use in inlines. and as anyone who has shot both knows, inlines and traditional components don't mix and interchange well. Not without headaches first.

 

[bang]

Use Pyrodex P in everything for 20+ years with no problems. Including my 40 year old Hawkins.

 

[timh]

Nobody read my post.
His main problem is the powder he is using. Getting good ignition in a T/C Hawken is hard enough when using Pyrodex P and usually requires a hotshot nipple or some diligent loading and cleaning for consistent ignition.. But, using Pyrodex RS or Select will make the problem even worse. Add in a plastic sabot(yes I said it because he is using it and needs to be educated) and you amplify the problem of breech fouling.

IMO, pryrodex select was developed for use in inlines. and as anyone who has shot both knows, inlines and traditional components don't mix and interchange well. Not without headaches first.

I did read your post, but you offer no alternative... Perhaps I need a bit educated as I've been shooting in-line rifles. What do you suggest? Critiques are easy, what's your solution?

 

[Carbon 6]

Use Pyrodex P in everything for 20+ years with no problems. Including my 40 year old Hawkins.

Yes, I've shot Pyrodex P for 40 years including my 20 year old Hawkin
Of all the pyrodex grades, P would be my first choice for everything.

 

[timh]

Yes, I've shot Pyrodex P for 40 years including my 20 year old Hawkin
Of all the pyrodex grades, P would be my first choice for everything.

For some reason I thought that the "P" version of Pyrodex was a different grain structure only to be used in pistols

 

[Carbon 6]

I did read your post, but you offer no alternative... Perhaps I need a bit educated as I've been shooting in-line rifles. What do you suggest? Critiques are easy, what's your solution?

Switch to Pyrodex P or real black powder Ditch those god awful expensive Hornady bullets and start molding your own maxibals or round balls. start a swabbing routine of some kind (whatever works best for your gun) and maybe install a hot-shot nipple to enhance ignition.
Then smile and have fun.

 

[Carbon 6]

For some reason I thought that the "P" version of Pyrodex was a different grain structure only to be used in pistols

The "P" does stand for pistol, a testament to Hodgdons outdated marketing. A more accurate description would be that "P" is a 3fff equivalent. 3fff is perfectly suitable for use in a modern 50 cal rifle (traditional style, not an inline) just reduce max charge by 10-20 %
Many people will attest to better performance using a 3fff granulation.

 

[bang]

Pyrodex P is like fff. In the right load it's low fouling.

 

[Carbon 6]

Now, what did you say, you had 6 misfires in a row?
Any time you have a misfire or failure to fire or hang fire, it's time to stop shooting and clean your gun.

Unless it's the first shot of the day, then you know you did a poor job of cleaning the time before.

 

[Carbon 6]

If you come into the world of traditional muzzleloading from the world of modern inline muzzleloading you need to leave everything you know about modern inline muzleloading behind, because most of it does not cross over and will only complicate things.

 

[timh]

The "P" does stand for pistol, a testament to Hodgdons outdated marketing. A more accurate description would be that "P" is a 3fff equivalent. 3fff is perfectly suitable for use in a modern 50 cal rifle (traditional style, not an inline) just reduce max charge by 10-20 %
Many people will attest to better performance using a 3fff granulation.

Thanks!!!! I’ll give it a shot!!