Traditions Pennsylvania Percussion?

[Smokey Plainsman]

Anyone out there own a Traditions Pennsylvania rifle in percussion?

Reason I ask is because I'm looking for a slow-twist PRB shooting percussion rifle in .45-50 caliber. I already own a Lyman GPR in flint but want to add a percussion rifle to my little armory.

But, I do not want a 1:48 or any fast twist rifle at all. I'm a "patched roundballman" through and through, I don't mess with conicals. It's a shame that so many rifles today like the Pedersolis come with only 1:48 twists. I wanted the ability to shoot straight with large powder charges with my PRB for use while hunting boars and deers, 1:48 isn't so good in this regard so I want a slow twist gun.

Anybody shoot or like these? I've heard mixed feelings on the flint versions but I'd imagine the percussion ones wouldn't have the same problems (lock geometry on the flints etc. etc.).

Please let me know guys, and if this is one to pass up, I'd love to hear of other slow twist .45-.50 percussion rifles I should check out. I should keep in mind I am NOT a kit builder and don't want to spend over 1K on the rifle.

Thanks! :grin:

 

[Critter Getter]

I would look for a used early Hatfield. They are a one in 66 twist and the ones I have shoot incredible!!! Those are my favorite percussion guns that I own! Greg.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I am looking for new guns, should have mentioned that in my OP but I can't seem to find the way to edit it.

 

[azmntman]

You can "preview" before posting. If you post and wanna edit it then the post you posted will, for about 10-15 minutes, have an "
edit" button. After that its too late

 

[necchi]

I'm A Round Ball Shooter.(period)
so,,
It's all about the rifles fit dude.
You started a topic a bit ago about getting another GPR,, right?
Well neither the GPR or the Traditions Penn fit me for hoot!!(owned and sold them both) I can't handle that sharp curved butt stock. ( it works well for others not me)

I prefer a more modern stock, the T/C Renegade, Lyman Deerstalker,, whatever.

I can actually say now that in over 30yrs of shooting factroy BP rifles,, that the whole bend folks get over the 1-48 vrs 1-60(or slower)factory twist is a moot point.
I will admit that the slow(er) twist is a smidge easier for round ball shooting in competition,
But you need to understand I don't think there is a difference between competition shooting and hunting,, either way,, you hit what your shooting at or you don't.

The accuracy you attain is directly related to the patch size, lubrication and ball size you use in the rifle as it pertains to caliber,, bore condition with each shot and the shooters loading/cleaning regime with and during each and every shot.
that's the truth. JohnT.

gotta add this;
you can buy any freaking rifle you want,,
but, If you can't learn how to load/clean and shoot it, every time, all the time, then it doesn't matter what ya buy.

 

[azmntman]

Oringinal Hawkins were 1/48, I have a CVA Hawkin with 1/48 that shoots 2" groups at 90 yds. Find "the" load and shoot it :idunno:

 

[necchi]

I can't seem to find the way to edit it.

upper left hand corner,, timed,,

 

[necchi]

Oringinal Hawkins were 1-48

really? drag that one up again to be argued about??
OMG, so the new guy is having a hard time figuring out how to deal with our current guns,,
THE OLD ORIGINAL HAWKEN Twist Rate DOESN'T MATTER Much Does It?
Tell me how it applies,,

 

[azmntman]

They were accurate enough with PRB to get us from there to here anyway. Have another PBR.....NOTHING here to argue about. I have talked to Mr Hoyt a few time about redoing a few barrels and one guess what his recommendation was for ultimate PRB accuracy?

 

[Trot]

Two of my most accurate rifles with round ball are 1 in 48", a .50 and a .54. I Wouldn't get too hung up on the twist, just get a rifle you like and find a good load.

 

[Mr. Troll]

I just finished and test fired a Traditions Kentucky kit in .50 percussion. It's a 1:66 twist, 33" barrel. It shoots PRB very nicely at 70 Gr pyrodex RS, with a .010 patch. It also shoots 400 grain conicals with 70 Gr. Pyrodex RS very well. Groups about 2" at 50 yds with either one. I'm using Remington #10 caps and have not had a single misfire in 50 rounds. Here's a link to my first time out with it... https://goo.gl/photos/c2wejg8yoxLKN1Su6

 

[necchi]

They were accurate enough with PRB to get us from there to here anyway.

Their cut is/was tremendously different than what we have from factories today,, so much so that comparison is moot.

I have talked to Mr Hoyt a few time about redoing a few barrels

So have I, I have a barrel done by him.
If you missed it I endorsed the 1-48 twist.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

A friend of mine was given a rifle that looked like that. Can't remember the brand and name. But the patch box looks the same. The drop on the butt stock was not fit for a 10 year old.He is only 5ft 8in and we had to raise the sights almost a 1/2 inch just so he could lay his cheek on the butt and sight down the barrel.

The GPR is made for a full size man and fits well accordingly. I would caution you to handlle the rifle in a store before buying something that may require substantial alteration (inch high sights) just to be able to shoot it.

 

[Black Jack]

I think they are a pretty good rifle; the Spanish barrels are very good and shoot well. As you surmised, no problems with the percussion locks. However, as Zimmerstutzen relates, the comb on this model is pretty high. I have handled them and was unable to get my (admittedly porky) face down low enough on the stock to use the factory sights. Handle one first and shoulder it to ensure that it fits you.

 

[azmntman]

They were accurate enough with PRB to get us from there to here anyway.

Their cut is/was tremendously different than what we have from factories today,, so much so that comparison is moot.

I have talked to Mr Hoyt a few time about redoing a few barrels

So have I, I have a barrel done by him.
If you missed it I endorsed the 1-48 twist.

:surrender: so what the ___? So did I, yet BAM!

Being a "newbie" (your words) I believed he perhaps could be comforted that this twist is not new. Whatever....over n out :td:

 

[Kansas Jake]

Earl, I have a couple of 50 caliber rifles with 1 in 48 twist and particularly the Thompson Center Hawken will shoot a round ball very accurately out to 100 yards with 80-90 grains of powder. I don't remember if I every tried it with more because I've had the rifle for 40 years. I wouldn't be afraid of that twist for loads up to or even above 100 grains if the rifle is a 54. Having said that, I also have a 50 caliber aftermarket drop in barrel in a TC stock that is slow twist and deep rifling. I've probably put 50-60 rounds through it and am still trying to get it broke in and find a good load. At this point it isn't as accurate for me as my 48 twist barrels.

The point is for heavy loads, the slower twist will find it's sweet spot somewhere above the faster twist when shooting round balls.
But you knew that.

I have a Traditions Shenandoah in 36 caliber that is similar in design as the rifle you pictured except it has a shorter barrel. I don't know if the length of pull is the same. You are welcome to take a look at it to see how it fits if you would like. I live in Manhattan.

 

[hanshi]

Yes, way too much importance is given to the rate of twist (rot) in rifles. The important measurement is THE RIFLING DEPTH. A barrel with shallow rifling will often give mediocre to poor accuracy with prb loads much above cream puff velocities. What happens is that the shallow rifling allows the prb to strip on the rifling rather than allowing the rifling to get a good "bite" on the ball as deeper grooves would do. Shallow grooves have a much better chance of imparting accuracy to the barrel if the rot is much slower. IMHO a groove depth of .006" is on the low (but adequate) end for round ball accuracy. My round bottom Rice barrels have a depth of .016" and need a thick patch in order to fill the grooves and prevent excessive 'blow-by". Commonly, square grooves are around .010" yet these shallower, in relation to radius grooves, still benefit from thick patches. 1 - 48" twist is NOT "fast". As long as it is deep enough there won't be any problem.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Very interesting. I did not know groove depth was so important, but it makes sense.

 

[John V.]

I own and shoot this very rifle with my M/L club. It is a slow twist 1:66. I generally shoot .15 pillow tick patch w/ round ball and 60 grains of FFFG.Admittedly it took me bit to get accustomed to the drop in the stock when shouldered. The rifle has always functioned as designed accuracy is good.It definitely is not on the same level as a custom built "long rifle", but like you I do not currently have 1K for a custom build.I will say I have had compliments from custom M/L owners on the aesthetics of mine. Bottom line...it functions and works well for me for what I need and can afford and I do enjoy shooting it. Maybe one day a custom, but for now I am satisfied.

 

[bob308]

well I worked for hoyt and I can tell you his machines are close to what the Hawkins used only his has power. but the same basic principle.
I-48 is a good twist for a .45. but it will work good others. in fact I have a .54 with a 1-48 liner that bob put in. won a lot matches with it the ones I did lose was not because of the twist it was me. i also have a .40 with 1-48.