Trying to make a Flintlock Rifle decision

[Greasy_Jesus]

I have seen other threads on this forum about choices of Flintlock Rifles. I am really torn between a conventional American Longrifle or a military style rifle like that of the Harpers Ferry and the Baker/Jaeger. Like the most recent post on this forum I also hunt in Maryland and will be hunting Whitetail Deer (good coincidence). If anyone can tell me the pros and cons between the two styles to aid in my decision or personal recommendations that would be amazing.

 

[GregCSarver]

The quality of a Kibler Colonial cant be beat.

 

[EC121]

The stock design of most military guns isn't the best. Usually straight without a lot of drop compared to a well fitting longrifle. Also the locks were designed to have reliable ignition not necessarily fast ignition. Before I bought a military gun I would want to try it on for fit. For my money any custom longrifle will beat a military design in fit and ignition. It sort of depends on your preference.

 

[tenngun]

Personal taste here, with few exceptions I don’t find many military guns very pretty. Brown Bess is an exception for me and early French musket (1710?) single band and calfs foot butt
So just on looks I go civilian.
Military locks are big and slower then civilian but I don’t find it a drawback. You can get used to it real quick
Jaegar rifles are easy on the eyes and some find the shorter barrels to be handy
Again personal taste but a longer barrel just looks right to me and my Lancaster is real easy in the woods. And very comfortable to shoot.
Should you not be looking for a specific time frame the southren mountian rifles and the early Ohio styles and the late flintlock Pennsylvania rifles are a dream. Feather light slim, graceful, sweet in the hand.

 

[billraby]

There were some great rifles made in Maryland. The area also has some very interesting history. If you are from there then something originally from that area might be the way to go.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Welcome to the forum!

Your choice of rifle is a personal one, but since you asked for opinions, I will offer some thoughts.

Military rifles were designed as battle weapons. Considering that the world was moved by horsepower in the muzzleloading era, even small arms needed sufficient firepower to take out a horse. If you take out the horse, you disable the man who was on it. You may not need that much firepower for whitetails, although it probably wouldn't hurt.

If you want an authentic flintlock military rifle, you are very likely looking at a custom job built from parts from the Rifle Shoppe. It may be a while until you get it in your hands, unless you can find a used one. A couple of the Italian manufacturers used to make replicas of the 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle. Opinions on these are mixed. There are several nice quality military flintlock smoothbores being made in Italy, although in my experience the locks on these may need some tweaking. If you go with a percussion military rifle, you have a lot of options.

Since your main objective appears to be deer hunting, maybe write down your criteria. A ball size that is both legal and effective would be at the top of the list. A top-quality lock will save a lot of frustration. How important is authenticity? Many, if not most of today's Muzzleloading shooters find truly authentic longrifles too long and too heavy. Forty-four inch barrels and weights of 10-12 pounds would have been common, if not usual. A "Longrifle" made with a short, lightweight barrel is no more authentic, really, than the modern mass-produced rifles. Many of these are fine weapons and a great value in their own right, but they aren't authentic.

You'll want to think hard about your budget, too. A basic custom rifle built to your specifications from a reputable builder will likely set you back something north of $2,000, and from there, the sky is the he limit. If you are a do-it-yourselfer, you might save some cash and get a very nice rifle by getting and assembling one of the precision kits, as from Mr. Kibler.

Good luck to you!

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[PathfinderNC]

I hunted Whitetail in Eastern Maryland (Cecil County) many times and always successfully with a .45 Longrifle. I certainly could have scored hits with a military style gun, but for tracking in the woods the rifle was light and easy to bring to the shoulder and eye. I think you would be happier with a rifle unless you wanted the versatility of having a smooth bore which would be useful. Maybe a fusil de chase might be a consideration as well, which could offer a bit of both lighter weight, good accuracy in the Maryland woods and pleasing looks?

 

[Whitworth]

The stock drop on a long rifle makes sighting less neck wrenching and more natural for me compared to military stocks. YMMV

 

[Sparkitoff]

I prefer an English Sporting Rifle style or a Jaeger for hunting. While I love the looks of a longrifle, I find them too long for blinds, treestands, moving through brush and general handling all day.

 

[Daveboone]

Just a thought....I also had to make the same decision, with most of my use planned for deer hunting. Largely due to the much easier take down/ cleaning possible with a patent breech (in my opinion) I went with a design I am already well familiar with , The Lyman Great Plains Rifle. I chose the new Pedersoli, which I am still sighting in. It is a beautiful rifle, but very heavy. The older Lyman GPR in flintlock is still available, for about four hundred bucks less....Maybe for a dedicated hunting flintlock it may have been a better choice for me. I have the percussion version, and it in comparison a dream to carry.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have seen other threads on this forum about choices of Flintlock Rifles. I am really torn between a conventional American Longrifle or a military style rifle like that of the Harpers Ferry and the Baker/Jaeger. Like the most recent post on this forum I also hunt in Maryland and will be hunting Whitetail Deer (good coincidence). If anyone can tell me the pros and cons between the two styles to aid in my decision or personal recommendations that would be amazing.

Welcome Neighbor!

So you haven't mentioned you're going to build, you're going to have it built, or you're going to buy such factory made. Starting from the lowest cost, and the style...

The Baker, and The Jaeger, and the Harper's Ferry 1803 are all short rifles. They are then considered by some as being handy in thick brush, but I've found that the brush needs to be really really thick for that to be the case.

The Jaeger by Pedersoli and the Harper's Ferry by Euroarms are both .54 caliber. The Jaeger has a faster twist, and it has been shown to be accurate in both round ball and conical bullets.

The Baker would be retro-fitting an India made copy with a Colerain barrel. That's a bit of a pain in the arse. It's a .62 caliber barrel, and is going to hammer deer compared to a .54, but unless you must have a Baker, I'd shy away from the Baker retro fitted.

Next you have parts kits from some of the suppliers, which will take time to build, and if you're not well versed in assembly, you have something less than you had hoped.

There are other factory made rifles, the Lyman Trade Rifle, and Pedersoli Frontier, that might suit you. So too the Great Plains Rifle from Lyman is very good, but not a long rifle nor military. The Lyman Trade Rifle is short, and very inexpensive, and known to work well with round ball. The Pedersoli Frontier is a long rifle, but at the bottom end of long rifle lengths with a 39" barrel. The .54 caliber version is a slow twist barrel for good size powder charges with that .54 patched round ball.

Topping the list is having a rifle made for you.
I've already discussed the pros of the short rifles, and the pros will remain if you have a rifle built.
It's been my observation that a hunter, especially hunting in Western Maryland, moves so slowly when hunting right with a flintlock (IF you move at all, eh?) that a 42 swamped barrel, or even a 44 inch or 46 inch barrel are not a problem. The longer barrel should give you a longer sighting plane than a 24" Jaeger or 30" Baker, making it easier for your human eyes to align the sights and make an excellent shot. I have found the longer barrel on my swamped 38" Colerain barrel is easier to steady than the barrel on a 24" jaeger, and a 42" barrel might be even steadier. It's up to you.

Depending on how much coin you have and what you're willing to do, I'd personally opt for getting Mr. Kibler to finish a .54 caliber 42" swamped barrel long rifle in-the-white..., meaning the construction is done but I'd have to do the wood finishing and some metal polishing. Then I'd complete the rifle, and so save some money but have a very nice rifle indeed.

LD
In Damascus, MD

 

[Osseon]

I have seen other threads on this forum about choices of Flintlock Rifles. I am really torn between a conventional American Longrifle or a military style rifle like that of the Harpers Ferry and the Baker/Jaeger. Like the most recent post on this forum I also hunt in Maryland and will be hunting Whitetail Deer (good coincidence). If anyone can tell me the pros and cons between the two styles to aid in my decision or personal recommendations that would be amazing.

If you are going for American Revolution, American long rifles were military rifles haha. I dunno if that helps your decision any, but I've been thinking about getting some militia garb to go with my Kibler Colonial when I get it.

 

[brazosland]

I have a Harper’s Ferry 1803. And several long rifles. Several more Hawken and Leman style guns and a late Lancaster. Couple of 1841’s also.

I would go long rifle. Sleeker, more beautiful, prettier wood, better lock performance and better handling.

Since you mentioned the 1803...I had a relative on the Corps of Discovery, so that rifle was always on my short list. I wondered why you didn’t see more used in the fur trade...after I got one I found out why. Heavy, clunky, poorly balanced. Plain walnut, etc. But from a handling standpoint it’s just not lively in your hands.

Get a gun that shoots, feels and carries as good as it looks. You won’t be sorry.

 

[BadDaditood]

That Harpers Ferry is (arguably) the best looking USArmy rifle ever made.
I ordered a set of parts for one from The Rifle Shoppe 2 years ago... last September they said any day now...
A much faster and easier kit would be Kiblers’ small caliber Southern Mountain Rifle, or large caliber Colonial. Both are swamped for superb balance and the locks are as good as they come these days. Real important in a flinter.
I’m not familiar with factory finished rifles, they are rarely “historically correct”
Pedersolis are popular but spendy.

 

[hanshi]

For myself, at least, the longrifle RULES! A US 1841 .54 is the only military rifle I own. As handsome as that rifle is the 10.5 lb weight keeps me from using it in the woods much at all. Yes it has killed deer but I just simply love longrifles. The only other rifle I like as well as I like the longrifle is the jaeger.