Tubing smoothbore barrel
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The octagon to round 28 gauge smoothbore barrel I got from Jack Garner also has a visible seam down the bore. I'd rather it didn't, but it "seams" to do no harm. Before machines to drill barrels from solid stock became common, most muzzleloading barrels were formed around a mandrel and had at least one welded seam, whether or not it showed.
Some swear by tubing barrels while others swear at them. Not all tubing is the same but high grade tubing has proved stronger than some barrels bored of lesser steel. But then, there also is tubing made of "lesser steel". :grin:
Some swear by tubing barrels while others swear at them. Not all tubing is the same but high grade tubing has proved stronger than some barrels bored of lesser steel. But then, there also is tubing made of "lesser steel". :grin:
k.jacobfrost
40 Cal.
modoc said:
I guess it's really going to come down to what grade of tubing it is. I know there are several manufactures who use DOM and they don't seem to have a problem. I know Jack Brown uses DOM for his barrels and has been vary helpful in helping me select what kind and grade of tubing to use. I would suggest contacting him and seeing what info he can offer. I am guessing that if it is hydraulic tubing or as most people call it DOM and you can see a weld it was probably electronically welded (ew). Do you know if it has been fired before, or who made it?
There are basically three different types of tubing,
Welded, DOM and seamless.
It sounds like you have the welded type and I have to stand with the don't use it crowd.
The DOM tubing looks like seamless but it is actually just welded tubing which has been run over a mandral to smooth out the weld seam.
IMO, this does not add a great deal of strength to the material at the weld joint but it does make a smooth tube which will seal with the fittings when they are installed.
Seamless tubing is formed by a specialized process which creates a tube without seams of any kind.
It is the only tubing that may be used safely (in my opinion) for a gun barrel.
Even this is dependent on the wall thickness.
Again, in my opinion, a wall less than .200 is too thin to take the pressures from exploding gunpowder.
Speaking of pressures, the typical hydraulic tube may be made to withstand very high pressures, but these pressures are not applied with the speed which exploding powder produces.
If one looks at the pressure formulas for pressure vessels they will find that the strength for explosions like gunpowder produces needs to be much higher than when the pressure is applied gently (as in opening a valve in the system).
The material and heat treatment of tube is made of is also very important and can make or break the tubes suitability for a gunbarrel.
zonie
Welded, DOM and seamless.
It sounds like you have the welded type and I have to stand with the don't use it crowd.
The DOM tubing looks like seamless but it is actually just welded tubing which has been run over a mandral to smooth out the weld seam.
IMO, this does not add a great deal of strength to the material at the weld joint but it does make a smooth tube which will seal with the fittings when they are installed.
Seamless tubing is formed by a specialized process which creates a tube without seams of any kind.
It is the only tubing that may be used safely (in my opinion) for a gun barrel.
Even this is dependent on the wall thickness.
Again, in my opinion, a wall less than .200 is too thin to take the pressures from exploding gunpowder.
Speaking of pressures, the typical hydraulic tube may be made to withstand very high pressures, but these pressures are not applied with the speed which exploding powder produces.
If one looks at the pressure formulas for pressure vessels they will find that the strength for explosions like gunpowder produces needs to be much higher than when the pressure is applied gently (as in opening a valve in the system).
The material and heat treatment of tube is made of is also very important and can make or break the tubes suitability for a gunbarrel.
zonie
Capt. Jas.
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great post ZONIE!!! Well worded.
WV_Hillbilly
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According to a friend of mine that worked for many years as a welder at a company that manufactured fire engines, they used various sizes and styles of seamless tubing...
...AND a few of his co-workers would buy out some of the scrapped tubing and make smoothbore guns using it. He had never heard of any problems from them using the seamless tubing (which BTW was Stainless Steel); but the builders were quite aware of design limitations and some also had engineering degrees and backgrounds--so safety was definitely at the top of their list.
I suppose a person could get some of that seamless Stainless Steel tubing commercially, but I do not have any contacts. I hope to remedy the situation, and will post when/if I can get the information.
Regards, shoot (and build) safely!
WV_Hillbilly
PS I really would not trust the welded seam tubing, despite the fact that there are probably quite a few smoothbore guns (and small cannon) out there that have had no problems whatsoever... BUT I don't want to be standing near them when they are shooting.
...AND a few of his co-workers would buy out some of the scrapped tubing and make smoothbore guns using it. He had never heard of any problems from them using the seamless tubing (which BTW was Stainless Steel); but the builders were quite aware of design limitations and some also had engineering degrees and backgrounds--so safety was definitely at the top of their list.
I suppose a person could get some of that seamless Stainless Steel tubing commercially, but I do not have any contacts. I hope to remedy the situation, and will post when/if I can get the information.
Regards, shoot (and build) safely!
WV_Hillbilly
PS I really would not trust the welded seam tubing, despite the fact that there are probably quite a few smoothbore guns (and small cannon) out there that have had no problems whatsoever... BUT I don't want to be standing near them when they are shooting.
k.jacobfrost
40 Cal.
Real good post there. Seams whenever you say something about this kind of topic I end up learning something new.
Frost
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i have found some tubing at Fastenal (a nut and bolt supplier) the piece i was looking at was some DOM 1" OD, 1/5" ID, carbon steel but they also ofer the same in 304 stainless. i bought 1 foot and the finish is goodand the bore is straight. later im going to maby buy a longer length. my question is that with a sutible breachplug, would this be a good candidate for barrel material. [url]
http://www.fastenal.com[/url]
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Russ T Frizzen
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With an outside diameter of one inch and an inside diameter of .20", it ought to be strong enough. I would select my ramrod very carefully!
I can't say what their "carbon steel" is, or what it's strength is because I don't have access to all of the information I would need. There are many different kinds of "carbon steel" and some of them are not very strong.
I do know that the 300 series of stainless steel is a very "gummy" hard to work material that cannot be heat treated to obtain a higher strength. It can be made stronger by work hardening but that is something that is beyond the capability of most folks.
If I were going to consider using a piece of steel tubing for a gun barrel, it would be made out of 4130, 4140 or 4340. These are alloy steels which have very high strengths when heat treated properly. Some folks call them Chromally because of the high amounts of chrome (0.75%) and molybdenum (0.25%)
As I indicated before, I am not a big fan of using a DOM carbon steel for a gun barrel.
If you can find some seamless 4340 tubing, along with the written certification papers to go with it, you may be safe.
zonie
I do know that the 300 series of stainless steel is a very "gummy" hard to work material that cannot be heat treated to obtain a higher strength. It can be made stronger by work hardening but that is something that is beyond the capability of most folks.
If I were going to consider using a piece of steel tubing for a gun barrel, it would be made out of 4130, 4140 or 4340. These are alloy steels which have very high strengths when heat treated properly. Some folks call them Chromally because of the high amounts of chrome (0.75%) and molybdenum (0.25%)
As I indicated before, I am not a big fan of using a DOM carbon steel for a gun barrel.
If you can find some seamless 4340 tubing, along with the written certification papers to go with it, you may be safe.
zonie
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the steel type is 1026- ASTM A513/5, for the carbon steel
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sorry people :redface: :redface: :redface: i had said 1/5 ......meant 1/2 or .5 ....sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for your insites on this subject,Zonie.
I too have been ponderin' the idea of seamless tube for barrels.
Would puttin' .555 id .75ish od tube into .75ish id (they fit together) make it stonger ? just for the breach area 12-16"s it would also give enough thickness to put on a wedding band at the step.
would tig welding the sleve piece at the breach and weddin'band weaken the tube?
I too have been ponderin' the idea of seamless tube for barrels.
Would puttin' .555 id .75ish od tube into .75ish id (they fit together) make it stonger ? just for the breach area 12-16"s it would also give enough thickness to put on a wedding band at the step.
would tig welding the sleve piece at the breach and weddin'band weaken the tube?
Capt. Jas.
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With the availability of smoothe gun barrels available and advertised for sale as real gun barrels, why would one want to take a chance on something not designated as a gun barrel? Not trying to start an arguement but wanting to know the why. I can see the reasoning of the mass type builders doing it to reduce cost (although I dont agree with it) but why would one want to take a chance for just one barrel?
thanks
thanks
Mike Brooks
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I have on rare occasion used seamless tubing barrels. When I've needed 50"+ barrels I've gone to ben Coogle. I've always kept them large bored except for one 20 bore. I figure with the low breech presures of the big bores there's less chance for misshap. I've aleways used 1 3/8" for the breech too. Ben's long barrels aren't cheap either @ $5 an inch. Ed Rayle as well as Bob Hoyt also make extreamly long barrels too.
Most of my Coogle barrels have been 60" with one 72". The owners claim they shot extreamly well, both shot and round ball.....I'm not surprised.
Most of my Coogle barrels have been 60" with one 72". The owners claim they shot extreamly well, both shot and round ball.....I'm not surprised.
