My grouse hunting partner say's he relives the shot each day in his mind and it's a torment to him..Too many What if's...After this I started looking at a life differently. The Wife got the ring she wanted that I had been putting off ..etc.etc.
Turkey hunting - Head shots vs. Body shots ?
- Thread starter roundball
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I think you will have fun working up a load for turkeys. I have shot a few with smokeless and BP. Called in a few for others to shoot. Keep in mind that they are one tough bird to kill. My BP kills were #4 copper coated lead ( largest shot allowed in WI) over 80 grains FFG at less than 25 yds in the head and neck. Dead on the spot, but not alot of shot penetration, but neck broken from the shock of the load striking. The only bird I have seen taken by a body shot was on a second shot (with a smokeless)under the wing at 10 yds. A poorly placed first shot rolled the bird, it recovered to fly back at us.
Personally, my thinking is the conventional #3/4/5/6 type shot can't serve as a reliable alternative to even consider body shot as a norm...IMO, it would need to be a load similar to a big game buckshot load that's used for deer, but scaled down some from the 00 buckshot size pellets.
Step 1 is to order some small packs of different large size heavy pellets for pattern testing.
Step 2 would be coming up with a penetration test that would simulate penetrating through a turkey wing & body into the internal vitals.
ie: if the bottom of a heavy tuna or soup can at different distances works well for penetration testing of a turkey's neck vertebrae & skull...need to figure out what it would take to represent a dependable side shot on a turkey.
2 cans?
3 cans?
1 2x6?
2 2x6s?
For example, would a test medium as strong or stronger than whatever a .36cal routinely penetrates out to 50 yards be a good guide?
Step 1 is to order some small packs of different large size heavy pellets for pattern testing.
Step 2 would be coming up with a penetration test that would simulate penetrating through a turkey wing & body into the internal vitals.
ie: if the bottom of a heavy tuna or soup can at different distances works well for penetration testing of a turkey's neck vertebrae & skull...need to figure out what it would take to represent a dependable side shot on a turkey.
2 cans?
3 cans?
1 2x6?
2 2x6s?
For example, would a test medium as strong or stronger than whatever a .36cal routinely penetrates out to 50 yards be a good guide?
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Roundball - I shot a large gobbler (10 " beard) in the body at about 18 yards with a Pedersoli 10 ga. using 110 grains 2f and 1 1/2 oz. #5s. I was sitting on the ground at the base of an oak when he came in zig-zagging thru the swamp grass at a fast walk straight towards me from my hard left. He was coming in response to my box call and never gobbled, so I waited until he momentarily disappeared behind a tree, swung the barrels over to shoot, but somehow he saw me and was running hard the other way! My shot was low and hit him mid-section (wing area) on right side, knocked him down hard. He was disabled, but sticking his head up and I had to dispatch him with a second shot. I'm not impressed with body shots.
Sharp Shooter
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One factor to trying body shots is that the turkey would have to be facing a certain way (i think).
When I archery hunted turkey the bird would be gone if the arrow did not stay in the turkey. I had an arrow zip right through a turkey once and I blood tracked the little bugger for 200yds and lost him!
I think for shotguns headshots would be the best. With a body shot you have to worry about the pellets in the meat and stuff.
My grandpa has turkey hunted for years and got a Grand Slam. He once tried a body shot and the turkey got away. I think it was for lack of penetration. With the right shot size, I think you would be fine.
Anyways, I dont think it hurts to experiment around so have fun and keep us updated! If it doesent work you can always go back to head shots.
Kirk
When I archery hunted turkey the bird would be gone if the arrow did not stay in the turkey. I had an arrow zip right through a turkey once and I blood tracked the little bugger for 200yds and lost him!
I think for shotguns headshots would be the best. With a body shot you have to worry about the pellets in the meat and stuff.
My grandpa has turkey hunted for years and got a Grand Slam. He once tried a body shot and the turkey got away. I think it was for lack of penetration. With the right shot size, I think you would be fine.
Anyways, I dont think it hurts to experiment around so have fun and keep us updated! If it doesent work you can always go back to head shots.
Kirk
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Last summer I disposed of some saved turkey wings. Wish I had them to send to you now. Maybe could have helped your load work up. Might not hurt to see if there are any domestic turkey farms around where you could possibly get some wings or a carcass??
Jason Lewis
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my first turkey i ever had a shot at was with my then new pardner 10ga, it was choked XXfull and patterned well with 2oz of 4's from a winchester western. the shot was broadside from about 40yrds, perfect picture in my mind. only i hadn't realized that the bead on the gun was too tall. i shot low on the bird with a body shot, the bird rolled, thinking it was dead, i was in the process of reloading, getting up to step on him and getting out of the honeysuckle i was sitting in at the same time. he then started running, and then flew off. lost bird.
the next year, same gun, only 2oz 6's winchester western. i killed an 18lbs jake broadside at 60yrds, DRT. the 6's penetrated to his neck bones and broke them. this time i aimed a little higher and got a solid head, neck shot.
i haven't lost a bird since. i've seen my uncles and cousins make similar mistakes at even closer ranges too. last year i watched my cousin roll a tom at about 10 yrds, later we discovered a hole in his pattern just big enough for a head and neck.
on field dressing birds that i have taken with head/neck shots, i've noticed that 6's and 4's do penetrate the wings and chest feathers, but that's about it, they usually are about 1/2" or so in the breast meat, and i've yet to see any penetration holes in the breast plate leading to vital organs.
just examples of my experiences, feel free to chew them at will. :wink:
the next year, same gun, only 2oz 6's winchester western. i killed an 18lbs jake broadside at 60yrds, DRT. the 6's penetrated to his neck bones and broke them. this time i aimed a little higher and got a solid head, neck shot.
i haven't lost a bird since. i've seen my uncles and cousins make similar mistakes at even closer ranges too. last year i watched my cousin roll a tom at about 10 yrds, later we discovered a hole in his pattern just big enough for a head and neck.
on field dressing birds that i have taken with head/neck shots, i've noticed that 6's and 4's do penetrate the wings and chest feathers, but that's about it, they usually are about 1/2" or so in the breast meat, and i've yet to see any penetration holes in the breast plate leading to vital organs.
just examples of my experiences, feel free to chew them at will. :wink:
That kind of field info is always useful, and the results are not surprising...exactly because of those results is why my interest is in experimenting with much larger / heavier size pellets...not "birdshot" as we generally think of little pellets, but a load for a tough turkey that is sort of like a scaled down buckshot load is for deer.
Various larger / heavier size pellets are available of course, the trick will be to get a pattern from a smaller number of pellets that will consistently get 4-5 of them deep into the vitals.
Sure wish we could use a .40cal rifle here !! :wink:
Various larger / heavier size pellets are available of course, the trick will be to get a pattern from a smaller number of pellets that will consistently get 4-5 of them deep into the vitals.
Sure wish we could use a .40cal rifle here !! :wink:
longcruise
70 Cal.
I'm thinking that the bigger stuff such as 0, 00 and 000 would be too big for a reliable pattern and hits in the vitals. But, how about #4 buck?
marmotslayer said:
That's the challenge to figure out...too big or too small...I think there's a threshold in the lineup of shot sizes where you have to decide on one approach or another.
One side of the threshold is to approach it like a shotgun and decide on a large enough pellet size that will be heavy enough for deep penetration into/through the vitals...YET...still have enough pellet count to give some sense of a cluster pattern;
The other side of the threshold is to approach it from the perspective of a rifle...just using 3 or 4 or 5 very large pellets from the Buckshot series and run them out of the bore in a paper shot cup or something.
I love fiddling around with stuff like this...and in the end may not find or even use a result...but the exploring and learning is interesting
Rhett Griffith
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I have no experience with shot as big as you are considering, but I lost a turkey that I tried to shoot in the side with a load of # 4's out of a smokeless 3" 12 gauge a few years back. The shot knocked him down at a range of about 40 yards and when I stood up to collect him, he hopped up and ran off like nothing had happened :cursing: .
On the other hand, I flushed two turkeys a couple of years ago while quail hunting with my Pedersoli 10 gauge and managed to drop one with an ounce and a quarter of number 9 shot between the wings as he was rising :shocked2: . The distance from the muzzle was less than 10 yards and it still required a follow-up, but I did get him. I would not try that shot today.
All in all, I think I will stick with head shots from now on.
On the other hand, I flushed two turkeys a couple of years ago while quail hunting with my Pedersoli 10 gauge and managed to drop one with an ounce and a quarter of number 9 shot between the wings as he was rising :shocked2: . The distance from the muzzle was less than 10 yards and it still required a follow-up, but I did get him. I would not try that shot today.
All in all, I think I will stick with head shots from now on.
Jason Lewis
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you know roundball they sell ground turkey at the grocery store :rotf:
I'll have to echo the #4 buckshot. That would give the best balance of pattern to power. That is what I carry for varmint/pest control around the farm. The loading is 27 pellets and has proved very effective on critters around the size of an average turkey and larger. Never checked but I imagine that this load makes a pretty good meat grinder.
Ron LaClair
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I've killed a bunch of turkeys with everything from a bow to a modern shotgun to a muzzleloader. Body shots with shot destroy good meat plus too many times the bird gets away. A good load of #6 out of a 12ga to the head and neck area works every time... :thumbsup:
KyFlintlock
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Roundball,
The first bird I killed with a flintlock (Jake) I shot with my .50 cal shooting #6s and a piece of my sock for wading (dorkass me ran off without my proper wading). I called him to about 5-6 yards and let him have it and still had to run him down due to the poor wading not building up pressure I guess.
Good luck
Wess
The first bird I killed with a flintlock (Jake) I shot with my .50 cal shooting #6s and a piece of my sock for wading (dorkass me ran off without my proper wading). I called him to about 5-6 yards and let him have it and still had to run him down due to the poor wading not building up pressure I guess.
Good luck
Wess
Flintlock58 said:
This should be an easy question to resolve, because turkey farms provide the "laboratory materials" for it. For the price of a dozen or two turkeys you could experiment with as many loads and angles of shots.
Wild birds are much like domestic turkeys, but not quite the same. Domestic bird's breasts are meatier, so a load which kills domestics from the front should do "even better" on wild birds. However, I think you'll find wild birds wings are different than domestics, considering the flight capabilities of the wild birds. So a shot which has to break through the wing structures before smashing the vitals probably won't be well replicated on the domestics.
Before you ask, no, I have no idea how much 1 or 2 dozen turkeys would cost. But it's cheaper than 1 or 2 dozen turkey permits, and you wind up with a bunch of turkey meat at the end of the experiments.
BTW, this would be a test on live birds. Shooting frozen birds from the supermarket would be a really bad idea. PETA and other leftist nuts will undoubtably look unfavorably upon this test.
