TVM rifles

[Alden]

If I may surmise: he didn't know any better and/or got some "bargains." We ALL love those. Maybe even just less-expensive examples of particular era/region arms. In other words TVM was much like India-made muskets are today -- good enough for the money as a representative example where the next step up the ladder is too big a step for many.

If you are not getting an off-the-shelf base model production gun from TVM I would look elsewhere or look at theirs in person first if more "advanced." In neither instance would they be custom-made to your specifications.

 

[John Shields]

I asked him that question in a PM, and that was not his answer. I don't know why he hasn't post it in this thread yet.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Alden,

I agree some, but for some specially in this economy going from a $1,500 or even a $2,000 dollar gun to a $5,000 to $6,000 dollar gun is more than the next step. Specially if someone has a family to support. TVM are semi custom, their not a production gun like Thompson Center, CVA, or Traditions. But I agree if your doing reenacting then yes go to another more accurate HC builder.

 

[kopfjaeger]

I asked him that question in a PM, and that was not his answer. I don't know why he hasn't post it in this thread yet.

I wish he would. I'm not bashing his opinion, I would just like to know why specially after buying four of them.

 

[hanshi]

You make a good case. Just so others will know, Matt will build you whatever you want within reason, of course. This goes for other builders as well. TVM has basically two levels of guns: the default gun which is (except for wood choice) plain with a Siler lock and custom - yes, custom - pieces that have you choice of wood, lock, barrel, stock dimensions, trigger and even carving and engraving. My TVMs are all rather plain in that there is little carving or engraving. My last one was very, very custom and Matt showed patience with me. It was essentially an early Lancaster but after numerous modifications (me) it turned out to be a "youth" version of an EL. Mine is unique and there are no others remotely like it and that makes it custom. Matt will do that for anyone, of course, as long as you tell him what you want (the same as ALL other builders who claim to build custom guns which rarely are). Most HC/PC guns are NOT custom; they are replicas of historical or existing rifles, more or less. This is not to criticize other builders; simply to put them both in perspective.

Will my next (hopefully) gun be built at TVM? I haven't decided yet. I can tell you it will either be a kit or a custom; that I'm sure of.

 

[kopfjaeger]

You make a good case. Just so others will know, Matt will build you whatever you want within reason, of course. This goes for other builders as well. TVM has basically two levels of guns: the default gun which is (except for wood choice) plain with a Siler lock and custom - yes, custom - pieces that have you choice of wood, lock, barrel, stock dimensions, trigger and even carving and engraving. My TVMs are all rather plain in that there is little carving or engraving. My last one was very, very custom and Matt showed patience with me. It was essentially an early Lancaster but after numerous modifications (me) it turned out to be a "youth" version of an EL. Mine is unique and there are no others remotely like it and that makes it custom. Matt will do that for anyone, of course, as long as you tell him what you want (the same as ALL other builders who claim to build custom guns which rarely are). Most HC/PC guns are NOT custom; they are replicas of historical or existing rifles, more or less. This is not to criticize other builders; simply to put them both in perspective.

Will my next (hopefully) gun be built at TVM? I haven't decided yet. I can tell you it will either be a kit or a custom; that I'm sure of.

Thanks for you in put hanshi

 

[Alden]

To be clear I am not suggesting people avoid TVM altogether.

They have a niche -- that's why I went there myself many years ago now after doing my homework. I'm just a little sorry I did. Even after that I'd reference TVM but soon realized people who know me relied on my opinions and I had to stop doing that. Because of certain circles I travel in one fella literaly went and ordered two guns from Matt within an hour of my mere recognition of TVM.

But I was let down for a jacked-up price. And being steered in odd directions by Matt I wouldn't quite go as I was paying for what I wanted and wouldn't for what I didn't. I just wasn't really satisfied with the overpriced results and, in fact, Matt ruined my custom order. I sorta hate the gun I got because it is not the gun the way it was supposed to be and the pricing was gold-plated. TVM has become to me "he who must not be mentioned" if you have a reputation to consider.

So I recommend others shop around first. There are opportunities to pick up and handle assorted guns. And regarding TVM's I urge that rather than trusting you'll get a fair deal or even what you expect if Matt has to think much about what he is doing. That's all. It reminds me of a barber retired from the Russian Army -- he knows how to do one thing very well, over and over, all day long. When you pay him a premium for "styling" different from a Crew Cut do you really want to be the one hoping he gets what you personally ask for correct? At least your hair will grow back I suppose, eventually.

And it's not like I don't have custom guns... I have three on order at this moment from two different makers and the ONLY part neither are making from scratch are the barrels.

 

[William O.]

I have a Virginia style, left hand 50 caliber rifle from Matt Avance that I bought from a friend and although it wasn't made specifically for me and doesn't have quite enough length of pull I'm still very happy with it. The lock functions flawlessly and it is the first flinter that I've owned that didn't need a lot of fiddling with to get it to go off with each trigger pull. The only options that it has are a double patch-box and upgraded wood, which is really pretty but doesn't affect how it functions in the slightest. I have to admit that had my friend not made me a really good deal on it I would not have considered ordering a completed TVM due to cost nor could I have finished an in the white rifle here in my apartment. You situation is probably different.

anyone dealt with them? sitting fox isn't looking too good. thinking of ordering one in the white from tvm.

 

[Alden]

Funny you mention LOP Bull. That was one of the things Matt oddly argued with me about. This was many years ago now but I gave TVM the LOP I wanted on the model I was ordering -- I think it was 5/8" longer than his standard. And for some reason that was a problem!

I wear 36" dress-shirt sleeves if that means anything to you. I shoot competively and know gun fit. I knew the Early Virginia. Well, he got the LOP right at my insistance. Not a big fan of the two-shade darker butt than the wood next to it nor sure its quality level would be worth $175 extra...

 

[hanshi]

That's still a very nice rifle that you have there, nonetheless. I like it. :v

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Kopfjaeger, I have told the story of all the problems and inconstancies I’ve had with TVM. Each time I tell it I try to make it as brief as possible but it just turns into a long list of problems. So I’ll try to sum up the whole series of episodes.

I was getting back into muzzleloaders and was naïve. I read all the reviews about TVM and bought one and it had problems, I fixed them and thought to myself; ”˜oh well, they just let one get by.’ I was so excited about shooting and hunting with muzzleloaders I kept buying and fixing stuff, because I like fixing stuff, but when it finally dawned on me that I could get really good stuff without having to fix it myself or constantly having to deal with the builder, at the same or lower prices, I owned four of the miserable things.

To sum it up, I had money and I let my hubris get the best of me, which does not negate the fact that I ended up with four disappointing firearms.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Alden,

That's the same rifle TVM is making for me now.

The only difference is I'm getting a Chamber's Round Face Lock, and mine will have a single trigger, and swamped barrel ( can't tell if yours is swamped ). But your gun has the same patch box, and stock as mine will. It's not a fancy rifle but I didn't want a fancy one because it will be my primary big game hunting rifle. And I know you know sooner or later they get dinged up carrying them through the woods. I have a fancy flintlock made by a friend that passed away, it's all engraved and carved up and has beautiful tiger stripe maple stock, it's a beautiful flintlock. Plus the fact that a friend of mine made it and he's gone now makes it special to me.

Now if I took that rifle in the woods and got it scratched or dinged up I'd cry like a baby.

I like your rifle. As far as dealing with any builder anything worth having is worth fighting for.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Flash Pan Dan,

I was just curious.

I have to say that's really weird that you had problems with all of them. I have three TVM rifles at this time and never had a issue with any of them. And I know others that never had problems either. I'm sure a few slip threw their quality control, that happens with any gun builder. But four to the same customer, that's weird.

I never even had any problems with ordering from them, TVM has always been helpful and treated me great.

 

[Alden]

Headhunter;
Like our friend above I find it exhausting to try and relate the issues with TVM but I will say there are no mechanical issues with the gun. But since you mentioned it, the swamped barrel...

I can't hold a 42" full-octagon barrel on target precisely. I didn't want to spend the two or three hundred extra dollars Matt wanted to swamp the barrel. And I love the look and feel of tapered octagon to round. That was about half the price (oookay!) and all I asked was to basically have the O.D. turned to the width of the flats keeping it a relatively heavy barrel in any case, just lighter up front. Why I kept getting pushed to swamped barrel I don't know but it was another up hill battle. I have never bothered to measure what I actually got because, as I said, this gun was already ruined for me.

 

[kopfjaeger]

Alden,

I see you know what kopfjaeger means. That was the nick name of my Army unit in West Germany, I did a two year over seas tour there.

I didn't even know TVM would turn a barrel. I always got either straight or swamped. I like swamped barrels the most, but three of my squirrel rifles only have 3/4" flat to flat barrels so I got straight barrels on them. I have one octagon to round barrel on a Northwest Trade Gun ( rifled barrel / .58 caliber ) that Danny Caywood made for me. I do like it, it balances well. I can't see all of your rifle from the picture, but it looks pretty decent to me. But that's me, your the one that has to be happy with it. Maybe you should sale it and use the money to get another one built.

 

[silly goose]

I've been waiting to weight in. I have a .62 smoothie that TVM built, a .50 kit that I built, and I now have a .45 SMR kit on the way. TVM responded to a couple hiccups with no problems at all. I have no reason to be disappointed with their rifles, or their service.

You could argue the point about the hiccups, but who doesn't screw up occasionally? Put me in the satisfied category.

 

[roundball]

Interesting the various tales about TVM...I have some built by Matt Avance / TVM and they've been excellent, shooting them year round at the range and hunting...a few examples:

TVM's .40cal Late Lancaster

TVM's Early Virginia / .54cal Smoothbore ”“ PRB

TVM's Early Virginia in .58cal

TVM's .62cal Early Virginia / Smoothbore Shot Load

TVM's Early Virginia / .62cal Smoothbore - PRB

 

[Alden]

Before this the Catskill got your tongue?
:wink:

 

[silly goose]

:grin: As I get older, I try to think more before I speak. Doesn't always work, but it is a work in progress. :grin:

 

[Billnpatti]

I have seen several TVM rifles in Friendship and they appear to be well made and very nice looking rifles. All of their parts are good quality so I am sure that what they sell is good stuff. I have one of their rifles that I built from one of their kits. I bought it in 2001 before they changed hands. It is a fine rifle and I have no reason to believe that their rifles are of any lesser quality today. If you want a TVM, and they have what you want, buy it, it's good stuff.