kopfjaeger
40 Cal.
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silly goose said:
"LOL" :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: I know what you mean.
TVM rifles
- Thread starter faste350
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
"LOL" :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: I know what you mean.
Billnpatti
Cannon
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Wow!!!! Fine looking animals and some really nice looking guns. :thumbsup: I am more than just a little bit jealous. :redface: BTW, it looks as if you cleaned out the woods with those rifles. :haha:
I have a Late Lancaster, Leman and a pistol all in flintlock from TVM and built a Leman caplock kit from TVM.
I've always found TVM very easy to work with and generally really great folks. All 4 of the guns have worked out great for me.
Rio
I've always found TVM very easy to work with and generally really great folks. All 4 of the guns have worked out great for me.
Rio
Yep, I wear an 18/36 and need a full 15 inch LOP unless I'm wearing a heavy jacket. Only in cold weather hunting does my Virginia rifle get the nod. It was a problem, I think, because it meant that a standard stock couldn't be selected and one had to be cut special to allow a longer LOP. Imagine having dozens & dozens of stocks cut in which there was "up to" 14 1/2 inches length of pull and you got one order for a 15. Pure speculation on my part but that's what I think the problem was.
Alden said:
kopfjaeger
40 Cal.
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If a builder didn't make the rifle the way you wanted it why buy it, and keep it.
I mean if it was me and I told the builder this is how I want my rifle and he didn't want to do it my way or gave me a hard time I'd tell him never mind and I'd look for another builder to make what I wanted. Maybe I'm old fashion but I'm the customer and I'm the one paying for it.
If I told him how I wanted a rifle and when I got the rifle it was wrong I'd call him and tell him I'm sending the rifle back and I want a refund. If he didn't want to do this then he would be talking to a lawyer. And I'd sue for the price of the rifle and my lawyer fees. It would cost him more to fight me in court than to just refund my money and just sale the gun to someone else.
I just can't see accepting a rifle or anything for that matter if it's not what I ordered or wanted. And if a builder gave me even a little problem on how I wanted my rifle I sure wouldn't have him build it in the first place. :2
I mean if it was me and I told the builder this is how I want my rifle and he didn't want to do it my way or gave me a hard time I'd tell him never mind and I'd look for another builder to make what I wanted. Maybe I'm old fashion but I'm the customer and I'm the one paying for it.
If I told him how I wanted a rifle and when I got the rifle it was wrong I'd call him and tell him I'm sending the rifle back and I want a refund. If he didn't want to do this then he would be talking to a lawyer. And I'd sue for the price of the rifle and my lawyer fees. It would cost him more to fight me in court than to just refund my money and just sale the gun to someone else.
I just can't see accepting a rifle or anything for that matter if it's not what I ordered or wanted. And if a builder gave me even a little problem on how I wanted my rifle I sure wouldn't have him build it in the first place. :2
galamb
58 Cal.
I will give you a little different perspective here.
I'm a hobby builder, so build for myself and make lot's of boo boo's - it's constantly a learning process.
In my opinion TVM fills a gap and for the "target audience" they do it fairly well (individual issues aside).
The quality of the components they use is miles ahead of the "off the shelf" rifles (Lyman, T/C and even Perdersoli). I build my own rifles from the very same components.
When I look at TVM's prices I'm sometimes surprised they make any money off a build.
For example, I pulled up the first rifle he has listed which was the Tennessee rifle which is listed "with basic brass parts" (so a step up from the poorboy) for 1080 bucks - knock off 100 if you want it in the white.
Now, I cut my own stock blanks at a cost of about 30 bucks each for curly maple, but if I bought a shaped and mostly inlet for the components TVM is using it would run about 160 bucks.
A straight Green Mountain or Colerain barrel will run you 150-160 bucks - add another 10/15 for the breech plug, plus another 25 if you want it fitted.
(I just ordered a Rice Swamped barrel for an upcoming build at a cost of $310 bucks including shipping - swamps are more expensive)
Add 100 for the Siler lock (percussion) or 150'ish (flint), 20 to 50 for triggers (single or doubles), other furniture (trigger guard, butt plate, nose cap) can run you 40 to 100 bucks depending on how much finishing you want to do yourself, plus the odds/ends - barrel pins, screws, a couple of bolts, sights, barrel lugs/tennons/staples - 50 bucks wouldn't be out of line.
So even though my math is bad, just the parts often come in a touch over 600 bucks (that has been my experience). That still leaves (me) as the builder, a couple hundred hours worth of work plus the cost of finishing (maybe another 20 or 30 bucks for stain, oil, barrel blue/brown etc plus alot of more hours stretching a few days if you want a rust brown/blue barrel).
They are doing all that work for about 400 bucks - not alot of "margin" there. Plus they have all the tools etc to do the job (if I went to set up my wood shop today from scratch it would run thousands).
So no, not a "bench copy" or "difficult to distinguish" replica of a specific rifle. But, in my opinion a whole lot prettier and better quality components than a Lyman or T/C or even a Pedersoli (which some models are close in price to a TVM rifle).
But definitely a collection of quality components assembled rather inexpensively.
If you are looking for a $5000 rifle you WILL be disappointed (it sometimes takes a couple to a few hours to perfectly tune a double set trigger - I wouldn't expect perfection in a rifle at this price), but if you have done your homework, decided on a design you like and want something that is a fairly good step up from a production gun at an affordable price, I think anyone would be pleased with a product from builders such as TVM unless you are willing/capable to build yourself.
I'm a hobby builder, so build for myself and make lot's of boo boo's - it's constantly a learning process.
In my opinion TVM fills a gap and for the "target audience" they do it fairly well (individual issues aside).
The quality of the components they use is miles ahead of the "off the shelf" rifles (Lyman, T/C and even Perdersoli). I build my own rifles from the very same components.
When I look at TVM's prices I'm sometimes surprised they make any money off a build.
For example, I pulled up the first rifle he has listed which was the Tennessee rifle which is listed "with basic brass parts" (so a step up from the poorboy) for 1080 bucks - knock off 100 if you want it in the white.
Now, I cut my own stock blanks at a cost of about 30 bucks each for curly maple, but if I bought a shaped and mostly inlet for the components TVM is using it would run about 160 bucks.
A straight Green Mountain or Colerain barrel will run you 150-160 bucks - add another 10/15 for the breech plug, plus another 25 if you want it fitted.
(I just ordered a Rice Swamped barrel for an upcoming build at a cost of $310 bucks including shipping - swamps are more expensive)
Add 100 for the Siler lock (percussion) or 150'ish (flint), 20 to 50 for triggers (single or doubles), other furniture (trigger guard, butt plate, nose cap) can run you 40 to 100 bucks depending on how much finishing you want to do yourself, plus the odds/ends - barrel pins, screws, a couple of bolts, sights, barrel lugs/tennons/staples - 50 bucks wouldn't be out of line.
So even though my math is bad, just the parts often come in a touch over 600 bucks (that has been my experience). That still leaves (me) as the builder, a couple hundred hours worth of work plus the cost of finishing (maybe another 20 or 30 bucks for stain, oil, barrel blue/brown etc plus alot of more hours stretching a few days if you want a rust brown/blue barrel).
They are doing all that work for about 400 bucks - not alot of "margin" there. Plus they have all the tools etc to do the job (if I went to set up my wood shop today from scratch it would run thousands).
So no, not a "bench copy" or "difficult to distinguish" replica of a specific rifle. But, in my opinion a whole lot prettier and better quality components than a Lyman or T/C or even a Pedersoli (which some models are close in price to a TVM rifle).
But definitely a collection of quality components assembled rather inexpensively.
If you are looking for a $5000 rifle you WILL be disappointed (it sometimes takes a couple to a few hours to perfectly tune a double set trigger - I wouldn't expect perfection in a rifle at this price), but if you have done your homework, decided on a design you like and want something that is a fairly good step up from a production gun at an affordable price, I think anyone would be pleased with a product from builders such as TVM unless you are willing/capable to build yourself.
galamb,
Do you actually own a TVM rifle?
I do not, but traded notes with a poster here who has numerous ones and is either frustrated with them or very happy at times, depending on the rifle at the time.
The first rifle he ordered arrived with the wrong finish on the stock and on the barrel. It was returned and corrections made.
Some of his past comments on various rifles was ram rods are no good, order two (2) sets of sights, on and on.
I have seen to many negative posts about TVM.
About the time I am going to order one, there is another negative post about them.
It seems like there are more negatives to TVM than there are positives posted here.
My observations reading about them from 2008 to date.
The negatives by posters here has forced me away from TVM, I really did want one, but no more.
Being just a reader, (not a happy owner or an unhappy owner) I have been neutral, but then again I have not ordered one.
Do you actually own a TVM rifle?
I do not, but traded notes with a poster here who has numerous ones and is either frustrated with them or very happy at times, depending on the rifle at the time.
The first rifle he ordered arrived with the wrong finish on the stock and on the barrel. It was returned and corrections made.
Some of his past comments on various rifles was ram rods are no good, order two (2) sets of sights, on and on.
I have seen to many negative posts about TVM.
About the time I am going to order one, there is another negative post about them.
It seems like there are more negatives to TVM than there are positives posted here.
My observations reading about them from 2008 to date.
The negatives by posters here has forced me away from TVM, I really did want one, but no more.
Being just a reader, (not a happy owner or an unhappy owner) I have been neutral, but then again I have not ordered one.
galamb
58 Cal.
I don't own one but have an acquaintance who does.
Perhaps I looked at it "differently", from the perspective of someone who builds (albeit not to the quality standard of custom builders but pretty enough for me).
What "I" observed. The shaping was more than reasonable. The inletting (wood to metal) was quite good, the components were top notch.
Ok, the trigger guard and butt plate is somewhat generic (maybe a little off for the style of rifle and maybe not what I would have used) but the fit was good none the less.
I did tune the trigger for him, it was a little "sticky" setting it at half cock - a bit of file work on the front trigger bar smoothed it out.
It was what about what "I" expected for a semi-custom rifle because I understand how many more hours would have to go into that final "tweaking".
I further get it that some may have higher expectations if they spend 1000 bucks on a rifle, but in the world of custom/semi-custom muzzleloaders that really is a "bargain basement price".
Now, if the rifle I saw had come at a cost of 3 or 5K and taken a couple years of waiting, my opinion would have been different.
I don't live very far from Peter Alexander (The Gunsmith of Grenville County) and have held his 6000 dollar recreations of JP Beck and John Armstrong rifles - they are not even in the same league (and if I dropped 6K on a rifle I don't think I would consider humping it through the woods looking for a deer) but I expect on "his" rifles that everything will work pretty much flawlessly and if I wanted a 14 39/64" length of pull it would be exactly that. (perspective)
So, I guess what I'm saying is, in my final opinion, from the perspective of someone who "scratch builds", the quality I have personally seen is more than acceptable - over the top, no, but for the money, exactly what I would have expected...
Perhaps I looked at it "differently", from the perspective of someone who builds (albeit not to the quality standard of custom builders but pretty enough for me).
What "I" observed. The shaping was more than reasonable. The inletting (wood to metal) was quite good, the components were top notch.
Ok, the trigger guard and butt plate is somewhat generic (maybe a little off for the style of rifle and maybe not what I would have used) but the fit was good none the less.
I did tune the trigger for him, it was a little "sticky" setting it at half cock - a bit of file work on the front trigger bar smoothed it out.
It was what about what "I" expected for a semi-custom rifle because I understand how many more hours would have to go into that final "tweaking".
I further get it that some may have higher expectations if they spend 1000 bucks on a rifle, but in the world of custom/semi-custom muzzleloaders that really is a "bargain basement price".
Now, if the rifle I saw had come at a cost of 3 or 5K and taken a couple years of waiting, my opinion would have been different.
I don't live very far from Peter Alexander (The Gunsmith of Grenville County) and have held his 6000 dollar recreations of JP Beck and John Armstrong rifles - they are not even in the same league (and if I dropped 6K on a rifle I don't think I would consider humping it through the woods looking for a deer) but I expect on "his" rifles that everything will work pretty much flawlessly and if I wanted a 14 39/64" length of pull it would be exactly that. (perspective)
So, I guess what I'm saying is, in my final opinion, from the perspective of someone who "scratch builds", the quality I have personally seen is more than acceptable - over the top, no, but for the money, exactly what I would have expected...
silly goose
45 Cal.
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galamb, I personally think you have pretty much nailed it. I have three TVM's. One they built, one I built, and one I haven't even started yet. I have had a couple problems which they rectified with no problem. I just got my first one back last night. They put a new barrel on it. But now I had a lock/trigger issue. I fiddled with it a bit and removed a touch of wood, and viola, good as new. My exact words to my wife were "You know, they make a good gun, but with a little knowledge(I have damn little)you can see where just a little bit of time would make it that much better". And that goes back to what you said, if they put anymore time into it, it would reflect in the price. I agree with you entirely, a great gun at a great price point for a lot of folks. I am very happy with what I've gotten from them, you couldn't buy a better kit, at a better price, and the same could probably be said for one of their guns. I have no experience with their dressed up models, I'm a vanilla guy myself.
And none of this is a knock toward other builders, I am sure your time and knowledge are reflected in your finished guns, I've seen some of them on here.
I guess you could say TVM fits my meager pocket book, and again, I'm happy with what I paid for.
And none of this is a knock toward other builders, I am sure your time and knowledge are reflected in your finished guns, I've seen some of them on here.
I guess you could say TVM fits my meager pocket book, and again, I'm happy with what I paid for.
Thanks for the insight.
I guess if I spent over $1,000 for a rifle, I expect it to be mechanically and functionally perfect and to what I and the builder agreed to as far as specifications on the build.
I am not going to fiddle with, nor repair a brand new rifle.
I do not not repair a brand new truck from the dealer nor do I work on a new washing machine which does not work after delivery and setup.
As far as being PC/HC correct I do not have any knowledge to be a judge or find fault.
I guess I am disappointed in TVM, I really wanted one custom rifle and it will not come from them as hoped for. They fit my price range, now they do not fit my needs for workmanship based on reading here.
When I talked with them on the phone I told them I would have to make a road trip from Texas to see their workmanship and quality. There was a reluctance then, there was no "come on down" and let's talk.
If I can not handle and fondle a rifle before money, it's not going to happen.
Thanks
I guess if I spent over $1,000 for a rifle, I expect it to be mechanically and functionally perfect and to what I and the builder agreed to as far as specifications on the build.
I am not going to fiddle with, nor repair a brand new rifle.
I do not not repair a brand new truck from the dealer nor do I work on a new washing machine which does not work after delivery and setup.
As far as being PC/HC correct I do not have any knowledge to be a judge or find fault.
I guess I am disappointed in TVM, I really wanted one custom rifle and it will not come from them as hoped for. They fit my price range, now they do not fit my needs for workmanship based on reading here.
When I talked with them on the phone I told them I would have to make a road trip from Texas to see their workmanship and quality. There was a reluctance then, there was no "come on down" and let's talk.
If I can not handle and fondle a rifle before money, it's not going to happen.
Thanks
hanshi
Cannon
I guess I differ. I've had 6 TVM rifles built with nary a complaint about any of them. They were all worth more than I paid to have them built.
galamb
58 Cal.
Richard, I understand your feeling on the matter completely. And for me too, a thousand bucks or so is "a lot" of money.
But to use your example of the new truck. If you went over to the local Dodge dealer and they were selling a brand new model, that you had been checking out and everyone listed it at 30K, yet their price was only 10K, you might get the impression that it wouldn't be up to the "standard" of the 30K truck, at the very least it would be a "factory second" that had some issues.
Time is money and I just can't see enough money in the price of a TVM rifle for them to put in the time to get it functioning "perfectly" - well yes, perfectly, no.
(my assumption here)
They must rely on volume to stay in business and in any volume business you have to cut a few corners to keep your costs down...
But to use your example of the new truck. If you went over to the local Dodge dealer and they were selling a brand new model, that you had been checking out and everyone listed it at 30K, yet their price was only 10K, you might get the impression that it wouldn't be up to the "standard" of the 30K truck, at the very least it would be a "factory second" that had some issues.
Time is money and I just can't see enough money in the price of a TVM rifle for them to put in the time to get it functioning "perfectly" - well yes, perfectly, no.
(my assumption here)
They must rely on volume to stay in business and in any volume business you have to cut a few corners to keep your costs down...
kopfjaeger
40 Cal.
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I have three TVM rifles and got exactly what I ordered and I'm happy with all three of them. I've never had a problem with my rifles or dealing with TVM either. I'm not an reenactor so a rifle being 100% HC is not important to me. I hunt and target shoot with them.
My observation of TVM is kind of like Lyman products.
Previously there were very few negative posts about TVM, they have increased in the past several years.
Years ago there were no negative posts about Lyman rifles. Now, for the most part, all I read is negative in the last 2 years or so.
In 2004 I bought a GPR flint 50 to use in line matches, my only fault is that it took 10 coats of Johnson's paste wax to make the stock look okay and had to adjust the stock wedges but that was discussed in the owners manual and how to do it.
Folks can build up or tear down TVM, I do not have a dog in the hunt, wanted one/lusted over one, but reading here has changed my mind.
I will survive without one.
Time to go cast some balls, Phoenix is coming up.
Previously there were very few negative posts about TVM, they have increased in the past several years.
Years ago there were no negative posts about Lyman rifles. Now, for the most part, all I read is negative in the last 2 years or so.
In 2004 I bought a GPR flint 50 to use in line matches, my only fault is that it took 10 coats of Johnson's paste wax to make the stock look okay and had to adjust the stock wedges but that was discussed in the owners manual and how to do it.
Folks can build up or tear down TVM, I do not have a dog in the hunt, wanted one/lusted over one, but reading here has changed my mind.
I will survive without one.
Time to go cast some balls, Phoenix is coming up.
Directed at no one.
Something to keep in mind is no company that makes things is going to make everyone who buys it happy.
People who are unhappy with a product and have access to the web usually post their displeasure with the product.
It's fairly uncommon for someone who is happy with a product to go out of their way to join a website and post about their joy.
As for the talk about new vehicles, almost every one of them is returned at least once to the dealer to fix something that isn't right.
Many well known brands are returned more than once before the new owner is satisfied with it.
Just something to think about.
Something to keep in mind is no company that makes things is going to make everyone who buys it happy.
People who are unhappy with a product and have access to the web usually post their displeasure with the product.
It's fairly uncommon for someone who is happy with a product to go out of their way to join a website and post about their joy.
As for the talk about new vehicles, almost every one of them is returned at least once to the dealer to fix something that isn't right.
Many well known brands are returned more than once before the new owner is satisfied with it.
Just something to think about.
galamb
58 Cal.
Absolutely, and I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that I was somehow knocking TVM.
I think them, and a few other semi-custom builders provide a decent product at an outstanding price - I honestly don't see how they make any money off of some of their rifles - I'm fairly certain none of them have retirement properties in the tropics funded by their rifle sales.
And absolutely agree that for every 100 rifle they build, it's that one (bad) one that you hear about.
It's unfortunate that our sport is so small that the levels of (service) are kinda skewed.
What I mean is you really only have three "levels" of quality in a rifle:
an off the shelf by T/C or Lyman somewhere in the 500'ish bucks range give or take (or a Pedersoli at at premium to that)
a semi-custom generally in the 1000-1500+ range
and then the full customs, with a "cheapie" often topping 3K, and a $6000 rifle certainly not unheard of.
For the "consumer" who is looking at a $400 Lyman, that semi-custom at 1200 bucks looks "expensive", when if fact it should be looked at as "barely a step up" most of the "extra money" if for superior quality components.
(If I buy a $500 Lyman GPR, then retrofit it with a Green Mountain/Colerain barrel that adds $200 - throw in a Davis trigger and L&R Lock, that's another $200 - which puts the price tag at $900 - and it's still just a Lyman)
If you want quality, style, and "fine tuning" you need a pretty big piggy bank.
It's just the next "step up" seems to be in the ozone layer in comparison which inflates the expectation of the semi-custom gun over the factory offerings.
If the semi-custom builders listed some "value added services" at a cost - eg. fine tune the triggers $150, polish the lock internals $200 etc, the "consumer" would get a better appreciation of what they were getting and perhaps lower their expectations or open their wallet wider.
As my last note, I may have left an impression that a semi-custom needs work to "function", in my experience that is "not true", I just find the triggers "work" but are not "fine tuned", you may detect some un-necessary resistance in the lock - will it fire, absolutely, is it smooth as silk, no.
And that is all I was trying to point out. The rifle will work, but with a bit more "work/tuning" you can make it "sweet".
I think them, and a few other semi-custom builders provide a decent product at an outstanding price - I honestly don't see how they make any money off of some of their rifles - I'm fairly certain none of them have retirement properties in the tropics funded by their rifle sales.
And absolutely agree that for every 100 rifle they build, it's that one (bad) one that you hear about.
It's unfortunate that our sport is so small that the levels of (service) are kinda skewed.
What I mean is you really only have three "levels" of quality in a rifle:
an off the shelf by T/C or Lyman somewhere in the 500'ish bucks range give or take (or a Pedersoli at at premium to that)
a semi-custom generally in the 1000-1500+ range
and then the full customs, with a "cheapie" often topping 3K, and a $6000 rifle certainly not unheard of.
For the "consumer" who is looking at a $400 Lyman, that semi-custom at 1200 bucks looks "expensive", when if fact it should be looked at as "barely a step up" most of the "extra money" if for superior quality components.
(If I buy a $500 Lyman GPR, then retrofit it with a Green Mountain/Colerain barrel that adds $200 - throw in a Davis trigger and L&R Lock, that's another $200 - which puts the price tag at $900 - and it's still just a Lyman)
If you want quality, style, and "fine tuning" you need a pretty big piggy bank.
It's just the next "step up" seems to be in the ozone layer in comparison which inflates the expectation of the semi-custom gun over the factory offerings.
If the semi-custom builders listed some "value added services" at a cost - eg. fine tune the triggers $150, polish the lock internals $200 etc, the "consumer" would get a better appreciation of what they were getting and perhaps lower their expectations or open their wallet wider.
As my last note, I may have left an impression that a semi-custom needs work to "function", in my experience that is "not true", I just find the triggers "work" but are not "fine tuned", you may detect some un-necessary resistance in the lock - will it fire, absolutely, is it smooth as silk, no.
And that is all I was trying to point out. The rifle will work, but with a bit more "work/tuning" you can make it "sweet".
54ball
62 Cal.
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with this.
Not too long ago I considered having a custom rifle commissioned.
these were the specs...
44" Colrain bbl in .54
Brass hardware
forestock moulding
simple carving
lock panel moulding
two piece brass box
based on RCA 114... The Free Born Rifle
My quotes were from $2200 to $2500 to $5000 the quotes in the 2s were from very good well known builders. The high quote was from a very good local but little known builder.
So for a good bit less than the price of a TVM Grand I could of had a full custom rifle built, based on an original piece.
This past summer I sold off a Southern mountain and put that towards a full custom that should be delivered any time. This is tradegun and it's for my 13 year old son.
This trade gun cost $1800 finished. I feel it's a good step up over the $1100 base model TVM fowler.
What I'm saying is the gulf between TVM and some good custom makers is not as great as presented, especially when you start to add bells and whistles to the base TVM like their Grand model.
I like TVM, Matt and the whole bunch. I feel they do a lot for the sport. Their value is in their base product. When you start to ask more from them, you get into Customland or at least the price of Customland very quickly.
"If a builder didn't make the rifle the way you wanted it why buy it, and keep it."
TVM didn't make the rifle for me, they made it for a friend who is also left handed but is a little shorter than I am, thus the shorter LOP. For reasons other than quality my friend decided to sell it to me and his offer and payment terms were such that I couldn't turn him down. So, considering the quality I'm willing to wear a thick jacket and/or several layers of clothing in order to make up that last 1/2 inch or so that I need to shoot it comfortably and consistently. Had I ordered the rifle directly from TVM then yes, I would expect it to be exactly how I wanted it and would send it back if it were not as agreed upon. On the financial side, it would have been beyond my budget to have ordered that rifle as it is from them anyhow. I don't need upgraded wood or a double patchbox or any of the other bells and whistles either, so the cost of a new rifle would be less as well. My friend was willing to sell me that rifle for much less than it was new and interest free over nearly a 12 month period, so I'm keeping it. If I ever do decide to sell it I would immediately offer it to him for what he sold it to me for. Back to the OP question, I've never had any problems with my one and only TVM rifle and if something does break or go wrong I am confident that they would repair it for reasonable and fair cost.
TVM didn't make the rifle for me, they made it for a friend who is also left handed but is a little shorter than I am, thus the shorter LOP. For reasons other than quality my friend decided to sell it to me and his offer and payment terms were such that I couldn't turn him down. So, considering the quality I'm willing to wear a thick jacket and/or several layers of clothing in order to make up that last 1/2 inch or so that I need to shoot it comfortably and consistently. Had I ordered the rifle directly from TVM then yes, I would expect it to be exactly how I wanted it and would send it back if it were not as agreed upon. On the financial side, it would have been beyond my budget to have ordered that rifle as it is from them anyhow. I don't need upgraded wood or a double patchbox or any of the other bells and whistles either, so the cost of a new rifle would be less as well. My friend was willing to sell me that rifle for much less than it was new and interest free over nearly a 12 month period, so I'm keeping it. If I ever do decide to sell it I would immediately offer it to him for what he sold it to me for. Back to the OP question, I've never had any problems with my one and only TVM rifle and if something does break or go wrong I am confident that they would repair it for reasonable and fair cost.
