TVM Woes! :(

[azmntman]

A custom rifle is not a custom if its not inspected by "the builder" IMHO. If this was inspected then????? Maybe look real good when it leaves the 3rd time??

 

[azmntman]

Yer grandsons purrty smart

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Well howdy, friends.

Let’s all try and be civil, now. The locks on its way back to TVM. Once it’s all fixed up my troubles should be over, and I won’t have to cause any more heartburn for you folks that received a better product than me. It’s called a data point of one, guys. Like I said, I just report the facts. Will report back when they get done with my lock,

Okay now you guys, cool down and throw back a horn of whiskey for your ‘ol buddy Smokey. Thanks, all.

-Smokey

 

[jdw276]

I wrote that and I am still waiting on the resolution. Have you heard? Oh, I mean the new issue with the lock.

Lock was just shipped out yesterday i believe. Check the date and time of the messages. Who knows what the issue is with the lock. Could be as simple as a to tight screw when they installed in in the stock. We shall all see in a week or two. Who knows what the builder will do for the buyer. My solution is to keep it between themselves. Simple answer in a week, "it has handled to everyones satisfaction". Or at least that is the outcome i hope for.

Have a good day.

 

[S.Kenton]

I wrote that and I am still waiting on the resolution. Have you heard? Oh, I mean the new issue with the lock. And my PO of the vendor decreases as I read more. I wont have to decide if I vent or call 1st....my $$ stays here till I see a completed rifle. This is a more and more common thing? For years I only heard of Alton (where he go?) screaming about Matt now many more? Maybe he (Matt) grew too fast? I heard of a guy in my business that tried to take advantage of a natural disaster....accepted 2 years work in a month, turned off his phone and fax and went to town (seeing dollar signs). Well I was called to redo stuff he did that he didn't send (and couldnt be called for a update) in cuz he was too busy? Its best not to take an order than to take an order, not follow through, deliver it late and wrong and then correct it wrong (if on time?). Or whatever. Been 20 years and I still getting his work.

If I screw up really bad I either discount the invoice or delete it. That right there a good rule to not screw up real bad by!!

That guys name was ALDEN... He dispised TVM, claiming an issue along the same lines as the OP. Anyhow, my question to the good folks that have decided to chime in on this thread is this; two forums have the same exact thread posted by the same fella, one forum sympathizes, the other has a couple of fellas who want to crucify him for not rolling over and taking it in the back side.. kinda of odd I think.

 

[azmntman]

"it has handled to everyones satisfaction".

JD is correct, thats what is needed. I would have been alot harder to please myself. Like I said if its a custom hows about the "builder" at least fingering it a bit on the way to Fed EX?

Ya Alden was a rare bird, he split about the time I arrived so I dunno much, lotta folks was happy he moved on. Believe his beef with Matt was about the species of wood used, or the color?

 

[S.Kenton]

"it has handled to everyones satisfaction".

JD is correct, thats what is needed. I would have been alot harder to please myself. Like I said if its a custom hows about the "builder" at least fingering it a bit on the way to Fed EX?

Ya Alden was a rare bird, he split about the time I arrived so I dunno much, lotta folks was happy he moved on. Believe his beef with Matt was about the species of wood used, or the color?

Haha, yes he was a rare bird indeed, I never quite got the gist of his issues with Matt, but he always used colorful descriptive adjectives to describe him and his crew. I’ve not had any dealings with TVM, nor will I likely in the future. I’ve started building my own and buying used ones that need a little TLC.

 

[Blogman]

I’ve started building my own and buying used ones that need a little TLC.

Ditto, that's what I do.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I do not wish to cause damnation towards Matt Avance or any of his crew in Natchez.

But as a free American, I will report on my experience with them and how they go about handling the issues at hand. As a new, younger member of the hobby, how can I in good conscience not try and inform others? It is thusly friends, that in due time, we shall see what this hath wrought.

-Smokey

 

[S.Kenton]

Very well said..

 

[hanshi]

It seems that relatively few customers have had problems with Matt's builds. My only two problems were with the locks and not the guns. The worst was a gun that was damaged in shipping; the lock was actually broken?? I called and spoke with Toni and she said send it back. I did and she forwarded it to Chambers (a colonial Va lock) and it was sent back fixed, or a new one, quickly. The other one was simply for a frizzen replacement. I have guns from 4 builders and all are impressive.

 

[just4fun63]

I’m seriously thinking about ordering another TVM. My current one is very nice and shoots well.
I appreciate Smokey discussing his issues, he got a poorly made gun.
Any company can have a bad day, the way they resolve this issue is what’s important to me. That’s why I posted to discover the outcome.

Did the lock issue exist prior to sending it back the first time?

 

[Brokennock]

I've been trying to avoid chiming in on this ongoing topic.
I have a TVM gun, it is not perfect. But, I did not buy it direct from them. The flaws it has make me skeptical of buying another from them as they seem very amateur mistakes of poor craftsmanship. And, when combined with some of the other major and minor flaws in hear/read about, well, little things add up. So, it doesn't seem like things have improved since my gun was built. Nor can I understand the lack of consistency in their craftsmanship.
However they seem to be the only game around for a semi-custom, or what one might call a factory custom, muzzleloader.

Anyway, the main reason I chimed in is that my curiosity has the better of me. Will this issue bring about changes at TVM to keep this from happening again? Bad things happen in any industry, bad parts go out, bad builds take place, mistakes get made, bad patient outcomes happen in health care, accidents happen at power plants, etc, etc. But, in any major company, hospital, med. testing/procedure facility, power plant, or similar, documentable steps are taken, procedures are put in place, to keep the problem from happening again. While I would say the vast majority of what I read/hear about TVM guns is positive, this is not the 1st time of seen Major screw ups and poor craftsmanship reported.
Before I would order a gun to be built by TVM I would like to know what Matt is doing to prevent these issues in the future? This, may be a helpful, and appropriate question for S.P. to ask.

 

[jdw276]

I’m seriously thinking about ordering another TVM. My current one is very nice and shoots well.
I appreciate Smokey discussing his issues, he got a poorly made gun.
Any company can have a bad day, the way they resolve this issue is what’s important to me. That’s why I posted to discover the outcome.

Did the lock issue exist prior to sending it back the first time?

Going to speak for SP here and dont have his permission. In his initial post of the issues with his rifle he never mentioned it that i recall. It was focused on the wrong barrel, lock inleting and what looked like plyer marks on the nose cap. I believe he went over the rifle in great detail and would have noticed it, but? That is where my confusion comes in. Taking the rifle apart to replace the barrel does not require doing anything to the lock but remove it from the stock. That is where i get thinking it could be they just stuck the lock back in the inlet section and screwed it down. Maybe did not get it set correctly due to poor inlet and over tightened to lock screw to get the pan to line up. Dont know obviously without handling the rifle and doing a personal inspection. Over tightening the lock screw will have the bolt protrude on the other side impeding the hammer fall. Has happened to me several times on some of my percussion rifles after cleaning and next time the hammer does not fall and strike the caps with enough force to make it go bang. I am pretty sure he will update us all when he hears in a day or two. Could be many other issues as has been speculated.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

I wrote that and I am still waiting on the resolution. Have you heard? Oh, I mean the new issue with the lock. And my PO of the vendor decreases as I read more. I wont have to decide if I vent or call 1st....my $$ stays here till I see a completed rifle. This is a more and more common thing? For years I only heard of Alton (where he go?) screaming about Matt now many more? Maybe he (Matt) grew too fast? I heard of a guy in my business that tried to take advantage of a natural disaster....accepted 2 years work in a month, turned off his phone and fax and went to town (seeing dollar signs). Well I was called to redo stuff he did that he didn't send (and couldnt be called for a update) in cuz he was too busy? Its best not to take an order than to take an order, not follow through, deliver it late and wrong and then correct it wrong (if on time?). Or whatever. Been 20 years and I still getting his work.

If I screw up really bad I either discount the invoice or delete it. That right there a good rule to not screw up real bad by!!

This ^^^.

It's better to be late and ship a properly made product than be on time with problems. Yes, it's unfortunate that the customer published here before giving his builder a chance to fix the problems. Yep, bad product does go out the door for everyone on occasion. One of the issues that pop up for me (besides possible QC problems) is that the builder doesn't appear to be adhering to the basics, like someone going through a checklist that compares the finished product to the order, on EVERY order. I can accept the occasional slip-up on low cost items that are pulled from a shelf - I am more concerned when it happens with a business that produces products that are made to order. QC aside, not being focused on orders being correct costs you real money and degrades your image to your customers.

I don't care if you're making rifles or airplanes, if you're doing it to make money, reputation matters. As already noted, one "oh manure" will negate 100 attaboys... One thing I have learned in my years of dealing with customer issues in my market (laser and waterjet cutting machines); when a customer has a product complaint and the requested fix is reasonable, apologize (don't argue), and fix the problem QUICKLY. Often, that customer will then become on of the best references you can have.

[Sorry for the long winded post]

 

[Gene L]

As stated earlier, I've got two TVM rifles with which I'm well pleased. Can you get a finer, more authentic rifle? Undoubtedly. Can you get a finer, more authentic rifle for the price of a TVM? I don't think so. As far as I'm concerned, TVM has an excellent reputation, which reading most of this thread will reveal. Pay three times the price of a TVM, and you should expect a near-perfect rifle. But mine shoot well, are very accurate, and while they may not be perfect, they pretty damned good. No criticisms from me.

 

[azmntman]

Like I said above they got about 80-90% real favorable reviews. I, me, myself? I'm a lemon magnate. Not gonna chance it

 

[Blogman]

lemon magnate

Had to google it.

 

[azmntman]

I cant spell, I meant lemons are attracted to me, I would get the lemon rifle.

 

[S.Kenton]

I cant spell, I meant lemons are attracted to me, I would get the lemon rifle.

Me too, purchased a brand new car for wife 2 hrs ago, issue after issue... took it back and traded it in. I purchased a brand new bike... same deal.. if there’s a lemon on the market to be bought... I’ll be the lucky one to buy it!