Two and a half foot drop at 100 yards?

[bear3855]

You don’t want a vented screw on a percussion rifle. Keep all the pressure behind the ball to get full value of the load. Did you ever say what rifle you have, TC, Lyman, custom or what?
Sorry you did say a Hatfield, that’s a good rifle.

That's what I figured. Before I shot it a friend of ours who's quite knowledgeable about these things took a look at it and said he'd heard of people venting the screw but never seen it himself and doubted it does much good. Been meaning to get a new one, but didn't realize it could be having such a pronounced effect. I'll be stopping at the hardware store tomorrow it sounds like.

And yes, it's a great rifle! I haven't had the barrel off to confirm yet (seems like the previous owner glued it on) but from what I can see and what I've read, I suspect it was made before they started outsourcing things to Italy. Feel like I stole it at $400, especially because I honestly knew nothing about it when I bought it - I was having trouble finding one online so I just jumped on the first thing I saw at the pawn shop...

 

[LME]

Depending on your muzzle velocity, may make sense. You are already ‘a tad low’ at 25 yards. If you were dead on at 25 yards, with a MV of 1500fps, with a .440” roundball, you would likely be a 11” or 12” low at 100 yards. Get a load worked out that gives you a group, then worry about the sights.

Amen! Never file your sights until you are absolutely sure you have developed the best load for the rifle!

 

[LME]

RPM'S are low so gravity has more time to work
Ball /bore dimensions should be re-examined ..patch thickness as well as material construction should also be challenged ..as well the patch lube effectiveness
The engine's not going to run right unless the combustion chamber is sealed ..nor will it be an accurate engine (reliable)
Bear

You are right. His problem may be the way he is loading his rifle. There is no logical way, that I can see that the huge drop he is getting could be anything else? I may be wrong? I have been wrong once before. LOL!

 

[Kappa]

Not sure if someone else touched on this, (I’m dealing with a head cold). I clean between shots especially when working up a load. I subscribe to the Dutch Schultz school
Of thought. There is a publication on muzzleloading accuracy by him.

 

[R Ellis]

If the screw is missing from the cleanout hole he is loosing a lot of pressure and velocity so the bullet drop is the result simple common sense

 

[bear3855]

Not sure if someone else touched on this, (I’m dealing with a head cold). I clean between shots especially when working up a load. I subscribe to the Dutch Schultz school
Of thought. There is a publication on muzzleloading accuracy by him.

I don't swab between *every* shot, typically every two to three shots based on how difficult the ball goes down. Of note, toward the end of my range time, I just went ahead and fired eight in a row without swabbing. Amusingly, the last four or five of those shots were my best of the day with the exception of one shot that found it's way into the black just before that. I'll attribute this to the fact that I was starting to understand how low it was printing rather than anything else, just a funny coincidence because I would not expect to be getting supreme accuracy at that point either.

If the screw is missing from the cleanout hole he is loosing a lot of pressure and velocity so the bullet drop is the result simple common sense

The screw is not missing, it's just drilled out, probably far too much. I agree, the more I have read in this thread, it seems to be common sense that venting out too much gas could cause substantial decrease in pressure and therefore velocity and POI. Not sure if I'll have a chance to go grab a new screw and take it back to the range today or not, but I'm really hoping I do because I'm itching to get her dialed in.

 

[RUDY MR]

Before anything fix up all problems on this gun then the wedge pin make sure its hard to get in to hold the barrel then shoot the gun group it and go from there

 

[Mr Mortimer]

Sorry if someone has already suggested this. I'm using a cell phone and the screen is small.
I had the same problem with my Kentucky .32. It turned out Pedersoli had been generous with the height of the front sight and the ball never rose above the line of sight.
If possible ( I'm fortunate to have a backyard range), try 15 feet, and see where the impacts are.
My (new) rifle was shooting "downhill" to start with.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Shoot from a sand bagged rest for all distances. That eliminates human error for the most part. Be consistent as much as possible with every shot, from loading to firing. Aim at the same point for three to five rounds. That will tell you pretty much where it rifle is hitting. Adjust your load up or down in 5 grain increments. Shoot three to five again with the same point of aim. Watch your follow through. Don’t lift your head from the stock until after the ball has left the barrel and possibly already hit the target. Repeat.

I‘m a bit confused because you mentioned a vent screw ? Is the rifle flint or percussion…. I may have missed that. If it percussion, and there is a hole in the screw that goes into the end of the drum that the nipple is screwed into, replace that screw. That would account for loss of pressure.

You mentioned you shot standing, kneeling and benched. That makes for inconsistent shooting to start out with. Bag the rifle and figure out what charge etc. it likes and where it consistently hits. Then make your adjustments.

Last of all, use a lighter lead ball. The lead you are using might be too heavy. Remember the ‘lead balloon’ ?

 

[bear3855]

Before anything fix up all problems on this gun then the wedge pin make sure its hard to get in to hold the barrel then shoot the gun group it and go from there

The barrel is neither wedged nor pinned, only two screws from the bottom of the stock and one screw from the tang (and apparently a buttload of glue) are holding the barrel in place. As far as I know, the only problem with the rifle is the vent screw.

Shoot from a sand bagged rest for all distances. That eliminates human error for the most part. Be consistent as much as possible with every shot, from loading to firing. Aim at the same point for three to five rounds. That will tell you pretty much where it rifle is hitting. Adjust your load up or down in 5 grain increments. Shoot three to five again with the same point of aim. Watch your follow through. Don’t lift your head from the stock until after the ball has left the barrel and possibly already hit the target. Repeat.

I‘m a bit confused because you mentioned a vent screw ? Is the rifle flint or percussion…. I may have missed that. If it percussion, and there is a hole in the screw that goes into the end of the drum that the nipple is screwed into, replace that screw. That would account for loss of pressure.

You mentioned you shot standing, kneeling and benched. That makes for inconsistent shooting to start out with. Bag the rifle and figure out what charge etc. it likes and where it consistently hits. Then make your adjustments.

Last of all, use a lighter lead ball. The lead you are using might be too heavy. Remember the ‘lead balloon’ ?

That is more or less the method I used to work up the load I have now. I shot standing and kneeling at 25, but from a sandbagged rest at 50 and 100. I had a low but very consistent load at 50 so I think my process was sound, but indeed the rifle is a percussion (should have clarified that) and has a vented screw that lets out a ton of gas. I do think at this point that this is at least a major cause of my problems and I'll be replacing that.

The balls I'm using are Hornady .440s, made of pure lead. Don't think I can't get much lighter either way, but I'm not quite to the point of casting my own yet. If anything I may try some .445s to get a tighter fit and see if that helps maintain pressure.

 

[Joemolf]

Sounds like you are shooting either way to level to some down to start with.
All the 45s I've had shot best with 70-80 grains for distance.
You'll have to shorten the front sight or get taller rear sight. To be accurate at distance it will need to hit high at 25, 50 and 75.
Muzzleloaders trajectory is almost like a mortar.

And here I was being cheap with my powder thinking 50 to 60 grains would be good out to 100 which I barely shoot at. 50 is my normal range because it gets blurry after that. Thanks

 

[Ed Pilkington]

Back in ‘76, I had a similar problem with my first build, a .50 cal Mountain rifle. A genuine “mountain man” friend said I should double my load. I poured 110 g of xxx and tore out the bullseye at 100 yards. Stout but incredibly accurate load. I blew more orange clays stuck in the berm at 100 yds “than Carter has liver pills”. Later I found 90g almost as acccurate and a heck of a lot easier on my shoulder.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Back in ‘76, I had a similar problem with my first build, a .50 cal Mountain rifle. A genuine “mountain man” friend said I should double my load. I poured 110 g of xxx and tore out the bullseye at 100 yards. Stout but incredibly accurate load. I blew more orange clays stuck in the berm at 100 yds “than Carter has liver pills”. Later I found 90g almost as acccurate and a heck of a lot easier on my shoulder.

I like this.
For some reason folk seem to afraid to go beyond a certain point. Even in metallic cartridge reloading my most accurate loads came in on average 2gn above listed book max! And I was not alone.
Get some powder in there!

 

[hanshi]

Any vent bleeds pressure and is likely the cause. Plug it with another screw so NO gas escapes. Keep in mind it's possible the screw will need to be metric. I think whomever built it (from a kit?) didn't know what they were doing. GLUE in the barrel channel to hold the barrel?! You will need to be able to remove the barrel in the future.

 

[Joemolf]

Any vent bleeds pressure and is likely the cause. Plug it with another screw so NO gas escapes. Keep in mind it's possible the screw will need to be metric. I think whomever built it (from a kit?) didn't know what they were doing. GLUE in the barrel channel to hold the barrel?! You will need to be able to remove the barrel in the future.

I’ve seen people shooting there old Brown Bess with what looks like a 1/8 in flash hole; they were gentlemen though and had the shield installed keeping the person to the right from the blast. Even a 1/16 inch pumps out a lot of pressure

 

[Joemolf]

Back in ‘76, I had a similar problem with my first build, a .50 cal Mountain rifle. A genuine “mountain man” friend said I should double my load. I poured 110 g of xxx and tore out the bullseye at 100 yards. Stout but incredibly accurate load. I blew more orange clays stuck in the berm at 100 yds “than Carter has liver pills”. Later I found 90g almost as acccurate and a heck of a lot easier on my shoulder.

This weekend I’m stepping it up plus it’s so cold I noticed fowling is less thanks

 

[bear3855]

It's less so afraid (I'm aware my rifle can go at least well beyond 60 grains of powder) than cost conscious, or rather resource conscious. With black powder in short supply for the foreseeable future I don't want to have to burn through a pound of it twice as fast if 60 grains is enough to do the job.

Any vent bleeds pressure and is likely the cause. Plug it with another screw so NO gas escapes. Keep in mind it's possible the screw will need to be metric. I think whomever built it (from a kit?) didn't know what they were doing. GLUE in the barrel channel to hold the barrel?! You will need to be able to remove the barrel in the future.

It's not a kit gun, but I do agree that the previous owner may have been in over his head... The screw is very poorly drilled out for one thing, and yeah, when I realized the barrel was glued in, I was dumbfounded. Not really sure what I'm going to do there yet, the stock is of course very thin and I imagine easy to break.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Heat will be your friend when it comes to loosening the glue holding the barrel in the stock. You need more heat than you get from a hair dryer. One of the heat guns to remove paint will do the job. You want the barrel almost too hot to touch to loosen the glue. Be careful not to scorch the stock.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Heat will be your friend when it comes to loosening the glue holding the barrel in the stock. You need more heat than you get from a hair dryer. One of the heat guns to remove paint will do the job. You want the barrel almost too hot to touch to loosen the glue. Be careful not to scorch the stock.

Boiling water?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Boiling water is another way to get significant heat throughout the barrel. It will probably take several barrels full of boiling water to get the glue to loosen.