Two and a half foot drop at 100 yards?

[Okie Hog]

First sight the rifle dead on at 50 yards and work from there.

With a sight height of .5 inches, a muzzle velocity of 1,650 fps and a sight in distance of 50 yards; a .44 round ball will be 7.7 inches low at 100 yards.

Round Ball Ballistics Calculator for Muzzleloaders (ctmuzzleloaders.com)

 

[Boomerang]

Has somebody bent the barrel

Maybe you should try to shoot it upside down!

 

[jackpine54]

Don't forget, before you file the front sight you should determine your most accurate charge weight. Once you've got that worked out then start adjusting with a file. If you can't get 3 shots to group at 50 yards there's other stuff to address first.

 

[Urban Coyote]

"Maybe you should try to shoot it upside down."

Is it could be your barrel has run out, bore off center a bit. Not sure how to check for it.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Sounds to me like you are losing a lot of pressure somewhere.
Check the vent liner and see if there is a worn out hole.
A 1/16" bit should pass through it, but nothing very much larger.
The second issue could be loss of pressure around the ball.
What are you using for patching and lube - and does it adequately seal the bore by filling the space between the ball and the bottom of the grooves.
You may want to go with a slightly larger ball or a thicker patch.
I had issues similar to this when I got my first muzzleloader.
After upping the ball size by .005 and increasing the patch thickness from .010 to .015 I had a drop from 25 (at dead center) to only 2.5" at 100 yards.
You should NOT have that much drop at 100 yards - and since you do it has to be from lack of velocity.

 

[Urban Coyote]

If run out and the barrel is breeched with the run out up or down it affects elevation, depending on severity sight height may correct it. If the barrel is breeched with run out right or left affecting windage it's a bigger problem.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Well, we all have had plenty to speculate on but haven’t hear a word form OP . With out more data from him I’ll wait.

 

[mooman76]

Whatever your POI is off at 25 yards, it will be 4 times that at 100 yards. So if a "Tad" low is 2 inches at 25 yards, it will be 8 inches lower at 100 yards before you even account for bullet drop. If you can't even account for 12 or 13 shots how can you even tell what you are doing? Get it shooting small groups at 25 yards, then adjust your sights for 50, 75, & then 100 & see what happens.

This.

 

[dave951]

Couple other things we need to know to figure this out- load data, type of cap, powder type, lube, range condition, bench or offhand, flinching?

 

[Rifleman1776]

With my target rifle, a .45 cal., Douglas barrel, I have beat genuine heavy bench rest rifles in matches at 100 yards. My normal target load at 25 & 50 yards is 55 gr 3Fg with .440 ball and ticking patch. When I move to 100 yards I up the charge to 65 gr. and put my sight hold at the top of the 10 ring, not 'X' center. Other replies have been good but I prefer to not screw with the sights. The works for me.

 

[Flintlock]

The OP was already low at 25 yards so it's no suprise he's low at 100yds. One really should know the intended use of this rifle, plinking, small game, deer. I use my .45 pretty much as my small game rifle so sight it in dead on center at 35 yards, if he's going to use it for deer sighting it in at 50 yards makes more sense and keeping your shots under 75 yards if possible.

 

[Ames]

The second issue could be loss of pressure around the ball.

I dont think we know the history of this particular gun barrel. Was the gun used? Did the last owner abuse it and create a bulge in the middle allowing gasses to escape before the ball exits? Try checking with a jag and a damp patch to see if it gets loose and sloppy halfway down.

 

[bear3855]

Hi everyone, sorry for leaving you all high and dry. I meant to respond last night when I got back from family stuff but to be honest, I wasn't expecting nearly such a response so I figured I would wait until I had a chance to really read through all your advice.

As it is there's a lot here so I'll try to answer everything while keeping it short and sweet... Regarding sights, and groups. My sights are not adjustable, at least as far as I can tell, so I would have to file the front sight. I'm not opposed to doing that but I want to take it out many more times and actually understand where my balls are hitting before I do anything permanent. Considering it's a touch low even at 25 yards (and I shot those a month ago so I apologize for my remembering the exact drop but I think it may have been around two inches) I suspect I will have to do this, but I have some more work to do first. As far as groups go, I think once I adjusted for drop at 50 I was getting about a three or four inch group. Probably not going to beat any seasoned shooters but to be honest that's pretty good for me using any rifle, haha. That's why I was surprised that I had so many unaccounted shots at 100 even after figuring out I had such a horrendous drop. Regardless, I think the suggestion that I dial my range back and try to get a better understanding of my group is correct and that will be the next thing I try.

Regarding pressure, I think this could well be the explanation. For one, the screw over the vent was drilled out so as to allow quite a bit of gas out the side, to the point that (in as scientific a way as I can explain it, from experience) it will launch an empty tea bottle right off the bench. Additionally, and I should have included this in the original post, I believe I was using .015 patches before (not certain because they are unmarked patches from when my dad was into muzzleloaders) and yesterday I went down to .010 as the .015s became troublesome to load after two or three shots, although I did try some .015 pillow ticking on my second shot. That was miserable to load and took me probably two minutes to stuff down the bore with a .440 ball, but the standard .015s I had been using were not so bad so I will try going back to those first. Worth noting though that the pillow ticking ahot was also about 18 inches low and I'm certainly not concerned about lack of pressure due to fit on that shot, haha.

Regarding technique - certainly not impossible that's part of the issue, as I mentioned even on a good day I'm not going to win any competitions. However when shooting BPCR at 100, while I'm probably not getting any extraordinary groups, I will at least get all or most of my shots on paper. But with my dad being experienced in muzzleloading, I'll try to get him out there with me next time so he can shoot it and see what he thinks.

I know there's suggestions I didn't hit on here and I'll try to circle back later. I think these were the most relevant but there was good info in some of the others as well so when I get a chance I'll address those.

 

[bear3855]

Wow, bunch of other great replies while I was typing out the last "short and sweet" one!

Couple other things we need to know to figure this out- load data, type of cap, powder type, lube, range condition, bench or offhand, flinching?

.440, RWS 1075+, Goex 3F, Bore Butter liberally applied to patch, 60F calm and sunny yesterday and at 25 yards previously, 25F breezy and cloudy at 50, offhand while kneeling at 25 and bench rest from 50 and 100. Maybe flinching early on but corrected now.

The OP was already low at 25 yards so it's no suprise he's low at 100yds. One really should know the intended use of this rifle, plinking, small game, deer. I use my .45 pretty much as my small game rifle so sight it in dead on center at 35 yards, if he's going to use it for deer sighting it in at 50 yards makes more sense and keeping your shots under 75 yards if possible.

Mostly plinking but I'm also taking it out for deer. I would keep my shots within 50 yards or thereabouts, and I'm not afraid to use it for that purpose knowing where it shoots at that range. 100 yards is more for plinking and I'm interested in shooting it at muzzleloading meets as well.

I dont think we know the history of this particular gun barrel. Was the gun used? Did the last owner abuse it and create a bulge in the middle allowing gasses to escape before the ball exits? Try checking with a jag and a damp patch to see if it gets loose and sloppy halfway down.

Yes, it was used and while I have not discovered any bulging with my cleaning jag there was a moderate amount of surface rust when I bought it so possibly not cared for the way I would.

 

[waksupi]

It sounds like you have a dandy flinch, and don't know the proper technique for bench rest shooting. Have someone else shoot for group, and see if there is a difference. The ball shouldn't drop more than around 6" at 100 yards.

 

[J. Paul]

Mine are sighted in at 100 yards which makes mid way about 4" high. Sounds to me that ball is always never higher than point of aim at 25 yards. Sight to 50 yard poa then see what 100 does

 

[morehops52]

Howdy folks. I am relatively new to the world of muzzleloading (or to rifles at least) and I'm looking to gain a better understanding of bullet drop when it comes to my rifle.

I took my Hatfield .45 out today for the third time. The first, I shot at 25 yards - she was printing maybe a tad low at that distance but was otherwise dead-on. The second time, I shot it at 50 yards. There was a pretty big drop at this point, probably averaging about 8 inches, but again the ball was falling reliably in the same spot every time, at least when user error didn't budge it a little bit. Today, I tried the 100 target. Note that I've used the same charge of 60 grains of 3F Goex for all of these shots, aside from the first few where I was working up my load and settled on this. At first, I was having a difficult time even telling where the bullets were hitting, but after a while I realized I was getting a drop of about 30 inches or so at the worst, maybe more like 18 at best. I ended up with I think three shots on paper, out of the nearly 20 I fired! I could account for 12 or 13 of them, some of them were absent altogether.

I mentioned this to my dad, who used to shoot his flinter in local competitions fairly successfully, and he wasn't overly surprised about the drop. But it makes me wonder, why? It seems to me that the same charge of powder I use in my 45-70 that pushes a much heavier bullet with practically no drop at that range should be keeping the comparatively tiny patched round ball in the air longer than that. Obviously the ballistics are drastically different, the twist of the rifling is different, the way the PRB engages the rifling is different, etc. Of course there are many reasons this could be the case, but I'd like to understand exactly why such a drop is to be expected (if it is to be expected), and if possible, how to bring it back up a little. I'm no stranger to Kentucky windage, but two and a half feet seems awfully hard to compensate for. Maybe the only answer is practice - in which case practice I shall. Figured it was worth picking the brains of some folks more knowledgeable than myself though.

I have to agree with the chrony idea first. Find out what your MV is then you'll have an idea if you need to make an adjustment to your load or possibly patch thickness.

 

[Britsmoothy]

-2"@25yds. There's one answer and a huge vent is the second.

 

[bear3855]

It sounds like you have a dandy flinch, and don't know the proper technique for bench rest shooting. Have someone else shoot for group, and see if there is a difference. The ball shouldn't drop more than around 6" at 100 yards.

Probably true to an extent. Like I mentioned I'll try to get my dad out to the range to give it a whirl, but that just doesn't seem to fully explain the huge inconsistency between 50 yards where I got an okay group (for me) and 100. I have a lot to learn but I suspect there's something else at play here too.

-2"@25yds. There's one answer and a huge vent is the second.

And maybe this is the something else. Should I try an invented screw and see what happens, or does it need to be at least slightly drilled out?

EDIT: unvented* screw, not invented.

 

[Phil Coffins]

You don’t want a vented screw on a percussion rifle. Keep all the pressure behind the ball to get full value of the load. Did you ever say what rifle you have, TC, Lyman, custom or what?
Sorry you did say a Hatfield, that’s a good rifle.