Two Questions

[monkr]

Does anyone load their Rem 1858 with just powder then bullet and lube ove cylinder without any filler between powder and bullet? The second quesion even though I know the safety percautions, I wonder if in old days when they carried extra cylinders did they put on the caps before they put cylinder in the revolver for speed.

 

[gordy]

I believe that using a filler between the ball and powder is a recent trend , I doubt that any of the folks that used c&b revolvers carried a pouch of corn meal. :hmm: As to carrying the cylinder capped , I'm doubtfull that very few did so . :idunno: I can't remember any written refference to it . :thumbsup:

 

[madcratebuilder]

Filler is a 20th century concoction. As long as the rb is seated on the powder charge your GTG. Using filler to raise the ball to the mouth of the chamber to improve accuracy has not made any difference in the revolvers I tried it with.

Carrying spare cylinders is a 20th century deal too. The old records show very few individual cylinders were sold by Colt. The only 'spares' I have seen with originals have been with cased sets of high end revolvers. Back in the day if they felt they needed more than 5/6 rounds they just carried a second or third or fourth revolver.

I would swap cylinders with the nipples UN-capped.

 

[rafterob]

I will load my cylinder both ways-just depends on my mood. I don't believe with the originals back in the day, guys messed with different charges. Load them up with powder and seat the ball. There seems to be some question if any over the ball lube was used either. They were used for self defense not paper punching so maximum power was desired. As Stated, the use of spare cylinders was doubtful. In any battle or self defense situation changing a cylinder would be much less desirable than just grabbing a back up pistol.

 

[token tory]

The only reason I can think of to use a filler is if the actual charge is so light the rammer can't seat the ball fully down on it.
I doubt that "plinking downloads" were a high popularity item back then as well.

 

[napolean]

I would only consider using a filler to take up space in a BRASS framed revolver. In my .44 Rem. 28 grains and a.451 RB fill all but ¼" of cylinder and shoots quite well. I doubt any types of fillers were used in the old days. Also doubt if anyone back then carried crisco. By the time the 5-6 shots were gone the fight was usually over. Most back then were lucky to afford a revolver much less extra cylinders for it.
Jon

 

[MSW]

I am given to understand that the powders of 'days gone by' were substantially less potent than what is available today, and that the cylinders were longer to accomodate the greater volume needed.

This may be a complete pile of do- do, but it has always sounded plausible, considering the modern facilities and modern chemistry and modern quality controls that were unavailable to 19th century powder makers.

At any rate, i use fillers and i'm not ashamed to admit it. If you simply fill the cylinder up with powder, i suspect that you're in for an unnecessary surprise. I know of a fellow who did that with a Walker and was surprised that the resulting recoil caused a chainfire. He probably had at least 45 or 50 grains in each cylinder. Made an impressive cloud of smoke, though. Luckily, nobody was hurt and the revolver was undamaged (at least, as near as i could tell).

As regards spare cylinders, i have gone through the mental list of photos of Civil War types, and i cannot recall a single image which would indicate that the soldier was carrying a spare cylinder, although many of them show multiple revolvers. I would guess that it was just a lot easier to shove the empty revolver back into your belt and pull out another that it would have been to try to change cylinder while everybody was shooting at you.

Free opinions, and no doubt worth exactly what you just paid for them.

 

[Titegroups]

I think they used cornmeal for corn bread, common sense, corn = food, not, corn = fuel. Hey....I got a smart idea.....lets convert our food supply into fuel for our vehicles.....and burn it. Wouldn't make very good indians.

 

[R.M.]

.....lets convert our food supply into fuel for our vehicles

Isn't that what they call "Bio-Diesel" and "Methanol" :surrender:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

FWIW When I put 52 grains into my Walker's chambers, I don't get an unnecessary surprise, just supreme accuracy! Like hitting a lid from a tin of caps at 25 yard Novelty Shoots accuracy! The amount of powder in a Walker charge has NOTHING to do with whether or not some ill-fitting caps fell off of the nipples, thereby causing the chain-fire. I ought to know, since I've shot my Walker in competitions for more than 3 years now, and probably fired close to 1K balls through it.......

Putting a wussy load in a cylinder that can hold 55-60 grains and a wonder-wad & ball is just silly. The revolver weighs 4.5 pounds! Recoil, even with single handed firing, is quite manageable. Under ideal conditions, the ball is supposed to compress the powder charge to a uniform point in every chamber of the cylinder, thereby providing the shooter with a better chance at tighter groups. The rammer can't do that in mine if I don't use 40-45 grains. If shooting less powder or having to deal with less recoil is the goal, it makes more sense to put 22-28 grains into a '58 NMA or a 1860 Army Colt, along with wad(s) or cereal.

At 135 yards the 52 grain charge does a good job....I can hit a set of welded-together Scott air tanks 3 out of 5 times in a single cylinder's worth, and the gun is "out-of-the-box"!

Dave

 

[Celt5494]

Right with you, I never understood why people put 15-20gr charges in pistols that were originally designed to hold much higher charges that might just increase accuracy and effectiveness if used for hunting or as originally intended used in combat.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

from what I've read some of the powder flasks made for revolvers had spouts that would hold differing charges according to the caliber of the revolver. the spout of my replica Remington flask will hold about 20 grs with a finger placed over the opening and the flask inverted and valve opened to fill the spout. I've tryed this load with 3F and Pyro and it's relatively weak but rams down ok albeit some space over the ball. my guess is when they were loading their pistols a more substantial amount of powder was loaded, I know W.B. did he had custom measures for his .36's. he also had stiff grease he covered the balls with as did many others likely for moisture protection as much as lubeing the ball.
also I read the Robert E. Lee's revolver was found sometime after he returned from the War. the balls were covered with stiff grease or wax-mix and all chambers fired no problem upon testing.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I've read the same accounts too!

My powder flask has a 25 grain spout. Pedersoli makes a flask with interchangeable spouts of various powder quantities. I'm willing to bet the flasks of yesteryear had varoius length spouts as well :thumbsup: .

Happy Easter!

Dave

 

[bkovire]

no bet, your right, i have seen a flask dated back 1859 1860 three spouts for pistol, 36 44 and the colt walker, one spout 25? next 35? last 55? if i recall the numbers, it was a brass tear drop, only seen one other like it on the web some auction site, did a flask search do not know make of it too much $$$$.

 

[TFoley]

I am given to understand that the powders of 'days gone by' were substantially less potent than what is available today, and that the cylinders were longer to accomodate the greater volume needed.

Sadly, Sir - it would appear from close examination of records and of shooting long-range competitions that you are wrong. We have yet to reach the quality of the black powder that our forefathers, particularly in the latter part of the 19th century, took for granted.

Of all the powders made today, only the Swiss product gets near the quality and effectiveness of the stuff they used in long-range rifle shooting at Creedmore and Wimbledon.

I bleeve that Mr Minshall has spoken about this at some length in one of his articles in the MLAGB archives.

tac

 

[token tory]

I tripped over a comment somewhere that may explain the 15~20Gr loads some sources cite.
It basically said that for a given barrel volume (as in diameter X length) you could only burn a certain volume of powder. You could put more in, but it wasn't supposed to burn in time so it would just be wasted.
The figure quoted for a .44 with an 8" BBL was 15 Gr. (this allowed for a 2" chamber as part of the barrel.)

I guess the theory was why waste powder that wouldn't burn, & this may have "translated" to those 12~15 Gr loads I hear of. :idunno:

 

[R.M.]

......I guess the theory was why waste powder that wouldn't burn, & this may have "translated" to those 12~15 Gr loads I hear of. :idunno:

One of my ranges is 50 foot indoor. These baby loads work just fine to put holes in paper for me.
It's one of the beauties of BP, you can vary your loads as you see fit for the circumstances at hand.

 

From an account of Texas Rangers' first use of Colt revolers against Comanches:

Hays decided to find out just what his band of fifteen, newly armed, was capable of in combat and began leading his men in a charge at the exposed Indians. Each had two of the Patersons and each gun was accompanied by an extra cylinder.

Maybe only in Texas?

 

[gordy]

Interesting point about the grease ! It seems I have read of the use of grease as a water proffing rather than a lube for the moving parts.
PPrior to the early steam traction engimes and later as the railroads became more common all the grease/lubes were animal by products , "pig fat " being one of the more common for wagon hubs and other friction points.
This may explain why folks tended to give some of the old gunmen a wide berth when they came down the street , Not so much that they feared them , but because they smelled like rancid "pig fat" . Happy Easter to you all!!! :thumbsup:

 

[buford87]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the pony express riders carried one pistol and one extra cylnder. Don't remember where I read this......watch yer top knot...............