Ultimate effect of how hard a charge/projectile is rammed?

[longcruise]

What method did you use to compress it?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Steel range rod. using various amounts of pressure.

 

[Dr5x]

The only positive effect of adding additional pressure on the loading rod is that if the patched ball gets hung up on that hard ring of residue that frequently forms in the breech, that extra pressure will break it free.
It is desirable to always have the patched ball resting on the powder with no appreciable gap between it and the powder.

Whether you think applying extra pressure is or isn't effective is up to you. Experiment if you wish. It can be fun and in my case I stumbled on a few discoveries.

Dutch

 

[longcruise]

I'm gonna try to come up with a device that will apply enough pressure to make an experiment meaningful. I suppose a Kadooty rod could work but I'd prefer an even leveraged system.

Anybody have any ideas?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Use an old Mec 600 reloading press it already has the compression ram with a ft lbs scale.

Or a hydraulic bottle jack and a bathroom scale.

 

[longcruise]

Both good ideas. A bit of logistics involved but a solution nontheless! :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

I do have a device that will do what you want but.....it was a gift from none other than Dutch Schoultz himself. From a practical stand point, it may be worthless but it was a gift from Dutch and I will never let it go until I get my dirt shirt. After that?....... Who knows? I'll be too busy greeting old friends and relatives that I won't care. Maybe Dutch and I will be sitting on a nice cloud and discussing muzzleloaders. :thumbsup:

 

[Jim C]

"Whenever I say something to the contrary that is beyond someone else's understanding they are quick to go into attack mode instead of asking questions."

Don't feel lonely on that account Colorado Clyde. I experience the exact same phenomenon quite regularly. :thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

That device has been mentioned here several times but I'm not clear on how it works. Could you clarify?

 

[Greenjoytj]

With enough compression you woul turn 2f a solid pellet.
BP burn from the out side surface into the center.
That would be a real slow burning pellet.
Canon grade.

 

[longcruise]

Black powder cartridges loaded with compression as the 45-70 govt cartridges were do form a pellet. Removing it from the case can be a matter of gouging it out. However, the powder does not burn as you describe.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Black powder cartridges loaded with compression as the 45-70 govt cartridges were do form a pellet. Removing it from the .case can be a matter of gouging it out. However, the powder does not burn as you describe.

Actually... .... the pressure required to form a pellet would crinkle or buckle a 45-70 case. Actually it would do far worse..

Have you never pulled a ball from a muzzleloader and then had to dig the powder out????? because it was compressed in the breech
That is the same compression as your 45-70....if it was compressed like a pellet it would be extracted as a single unit.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Black powder cartridges loaded with compression as the 45-70 govt cartridges were do form a pellet. Removing it from the case can be a matter of gouging it out. However, the powder does not burn as you describe.

Marmotslayer,
You are correct. I have used a compression die to do what you described, and it did compress the powder to a pellet. It did not harm the brass container. (Carefully worded to avoid the mention of items that should not be discussed here.)

Regards,
Pletch

 

[roundball]

Pletch / Marmotslayer, I agree as well...powder pellets absolutely can be created from seating pressure.
Before coming out of the woods in the dark after a hunt I simply brush out the pan, re-tape the vent with the tape I put on when I left the house, and wait until I get home to unload it. There I first pull / save the ball for range use, then use the air compressor to bloop out the powder charge...have had several occasions where the powder popped out as a pellet.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Gentlemen we are not in disagreement .....We just have different definitions of "pellet" :v

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'm a little late to the party, but am in complete agreement with those here that have obtained superior results by eliminating as many variables as possible, including the seating pressure of loaded BP charges.

Using a Chrono, I've been able to lower the sdv (and thus tighten-up my groups) of both my Hawken style rifle and my Uberti Colt Walker by "leaning-on" the loaded charge the same amount each time. It's a scientific & obvious difference when unequal pressures are applied. :thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

Actually... .... the pressure required to form a pellet would crinkle or buckle a 45-70 case. Actually it would do far worse..

Simply not so. Been there, done it, loaded it, dissassembled it, observed it. Trying not to go down the forbidden road here, but it seemed the best analogy to use. OTOH, it's often best not to use any analogy!

Have you never pulled a ball from a muzzleloader and then had to dig the powder out????? because it was compressed in the breech

H**l no! Why would I do that?

That is the same compression as your 45-70....if it was compressed like a pellet it would be extracted as a single unit.

Far from it! My replica Govt loads have 63 to 70 grains (by volume) compressed In excess of 3/8". You are never going to achieve that degree of compression leaning on a range rod. Why would you imagine that compressing it like a pellet would make it easy to extract from a case or the bore. The more it's compressed, the tighter it will hold to the walls of whatever it is compressed into.

There is more to this game than Google! :haha:

 

[roundball]

There is more to this game than Google! :haha:

:grin: I think its called actual hands on experience...

 

[coloradoclyde]

You must have missed where I said...

Gentlemen we are not in disagreement .....We just have different definitions of "pellet"

 

[coloradoclyde]

There is more to this game than Google! :haha:

:grin: I think its called actual hands on experience...

Roundball, Buddy, pal, you seem to be attacking/snipeing me from behind the cover of others lately in cowardly fashion. Especially since you won't contact me directly.
Several times in the past you have made reference to me as a "keyboard expert".
considering that you have averaged more than 5 posts per day, every day, for the last 12 years.....I guess we know who the real keyboard expert is. :hmm: