Un-patched balls ruin your barrel.

[Heelerau]

Donkeys years ago I shot a fox on the run with an un patched ball at 80 odd yards, missed the first shot so dumped in some powder spat a ball down the muzzle, rammed it then killed the fox with a ball through his chest whilst he was quartering away from me. As a one off I reckon you can get away with it in an emergency. I then patched a ball which loaded fine. It was a .490 ball. I think repeated shots would just badly foul your barrel, but not permanently damage it.

 

[Rudyard]

Quewalda If English isn't your first language You do very well in it. What is your first language may I ask ?
Most of this forum seem to speak & write & other wise mangle English, including me . So a Fresh perspective is always welcome . You might be a proficient shot with Mongolian matchlocks or Brazilian Lazzareeno's.? Certainly be a change from CVA TCs factory stuff which seems the sort most hold dear. If I myself would jump over a huge pile of just to get to one Mongolian matchlock Or a Lazzareeno of any sort .
Regards Rudyard

 

[tenngun]

Ok, what if it is a ball that you would normally patch, not an extra tight one.

Let's say I ran a ball (.490) down my barrel with no patch because of..... Reasons.

I happen to get a good hit (maybe a one off) center of target at 75 yards.

It was at the end of a long day of shooting, I was tired, hungry, frustrated, and stressed. When I saw the hit (on steel) I assumed that I had hit the stand. When the plate stopped swinging, I saw that it was a center hit.

There were spectators, and I figure that nothing that good comes without a huge price.

Had to see how my smoothie did at a hundred yards. Got about 2 1/2 inches at 5oclock on a six inch bull. First shot.
Realistically that’s in the realm of my rifle shooting on a good day.
Next shot was ten inches at 2 o’clock. Tried other shots and too had good sized spread. But that first shot right on target.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

By no means it would certainly not ruin a barrel, but could leave a lot of lead deposits and might be a bear to clean.

 

[quewalda]

Quewalda If English isn't your first language You do very well in it. What is your first language may I ask ?
Most of this forum seem to speak & write & other wise mangle English, including me . So a Fresh perspective is always welcome . You might be a proficient shot with Mongolian matchlocks or Brazilian Lazzareeno's.? Certainly be a change from CVA TCs factory stuff which seems the sort most hold dear. If I myself would jump over a huge pile of just to get to one Mongolian matchlock Or a Lazzareeno of any sort .
Regards Rudyard

thanks for your appreciation
I have to confirm that my English is rather poor, I just have the specific vocabulary about old weapons
and it's always a challenge, when I have to participate in a conversation in English.....that I tried to learn at school, 50 years ago and wich is sometimes quite different from the american way of speaking

my English is, indeed, very poor b ut I have excuses .... since I live in Belgium and that, like in Switzerland, there are THREE national languages ...

so I have to manage in Dutch, French and German ... because they are official languages

plus some english and italian because this is useful

I do not have any Mongolian matchlock, nor Italian pistol .(except replicas from Pedersoli, Uberti etc)...... but I have some original old weapons that you might find interesting such as japanese "teppos", cased duelling pistols and so on

I'll tell you more if you want.....

 

[JoJoLesh]

thanks for your appreciation
I have to confirm that my English is rather poor, I just have the specific vocabulary about old weapons
and it's always a challenge, when I have to participate in a conversation in English.....that I tried to learn at school, 50 years ago and wich is sometimes quite different from the american way of speaking

my English is, indeed, very poor b ut I have excuses .... since I live in Belgium and that, like in Switzerland, there are THREE national languages ...

so I have to manage in Dutch, French and German ... because they are official languages

plus some english and italian because this is useful

I have the upmost respect for those who can speak multiple languages. I never seem to get much past a few phrases in anything, and those are badly pronounced.

The ability to have even a hauling conversation in your non-native tongue is impressive. To be able to do it in a fistful of them.... Well, my hat comes off to you Sir.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Do they?
Is there an issue with gas cutting?

Assuming a normal powder charge, and a decent ball fit, dose not patching your ball wreck your gun?

Is it ok in a smooth bore but disaster in a rifle?
Other way around?

Have you tried shoving a wad down on top of the lead ball to see that it stayed right on top of the powder? I can imagine that would hurt anything, and it would be quick to load.

 

[JoJoLesh]

Have you tried shoving a wad down on top of the lead ball to see that it stayed right on top of the powder? I can imagine that would hurt anything, and it would be quick to load.

No, but that is interesting.
How much, and what kind of wadding would I need?
Becides for lubed patches, and cleaning cloths, I don't bring any wadding with me.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Quewalda You do well then plus Flemish in the mix ? The Lazareeno's where Belgium trade guns mostly for South America I just picked Brazil out of the air . They where a sort of Spanish mock Miguelet affair . I don't know much about Japanese Tepo's but they sound interesting . Duelling pistols are always interesting though Iv'e never owned or made any . Last time I was in Belgium I was marching about & sleeping in my 92nd Gordon' uniform at Waterloo in a rainy wet week of sticky mud on Sunday, even the weather deserved a medal And we started 10 minets late due to a programme printing error .On that occasion we where a' Regiment of three'. A General from New Orleans . 'Stumpy' a real ex Gordon's piper, & ordinary ranks Me. More fun than a bag of rats I enjoyed it immensly (See even I have difoolgaltys with spelling ) We camped on a football field nr Brain Arnoud ?with the 95th & KGL great time .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Griz44Mag]

Think about it.
We have been shooting lead bullets out of rifled barrels for hundreds of years. The lead engages the rifling to make it spin.
I have a (%^&#$) (censored) that has shot lead bullets for over 80 years. The barrel is fine.
The draw back is blow by and lead being gassed or sliced off the side of the ball where the grooves of the rifling will catch them. They can accumulate and block the bore, causing higher pressures. The lead will not damage the bore. If it builds up too much, it will block the bore to the point you get pressures high enough to blow the barrel out.
Lead deposits in the bore can be easily removed with any good lead cleaning solvent, or white vinegar. Be careful with the vinegar and don't leave it in the bore too long, it will cause corrosion.

 

[Griz44Mag]

No, but that is interesting.
How much, and what kind of wadding would I need?
Becides for lubed patches, and cleaning cloths, I don't bring any wadding with me.

For my .75 bore Haken, I load powder - ball (with no patch) - hemp fiber on top to keep the ball in place.
I have been known to use thin paper on top of the ball in my Long Land Musket when loading without benefit of a paper cartridge.

 

[quewalda]

I'm gonna try to post a picture of a bullet that was loaded without a patch
this ball was oversized, in order to seal the bore but , in this case the rifling is so deep that the botttom of the rifling is not reached (watch the "color" of the ball)
a part of the propelling gasses would run between the lead of the ball and the steel of the barrel


it is almost impossible to load properly this kind of rifling (named "anse de panier" in old french) without a adequate patch


modern steels of nowaday replicas could surely endure such a process for a rather long time

but an old weapon, with a damascus barrel, will quickly be eroded

Of course this kind of problem doesn't occur with a smooth barre,l as there is no rifling to be damaged


by the way: do not be afraid to correct my prose, I would be happy to improve my vocabulary

 

[quewalda]

Dear Quewalda You do well then plus Flemish in the mix ? The Lazareeno's where Belgium trade guns mostly for South America I just picked Brazil out of the air . They where a sort of Spanish mock Miguelet affair . I don't know much about Japanese Tepo's but they sound interesting . Duelling pistols are always interesting though Iv'e never owned or made any . Last time I was in Belgium I was marching about & sleeping in my 92nd Gordon' uniform at Waterloo in a rainy wet week of sticky mud on Sunday, even the weather deserved a medal And we started 10 minets late due to a programme printing error .On that occasion we where a' Regiment of three'. A General from New Orleans . 'Stumpy' a real ex Gordon's piper, & ordinary ranks Me. More fun than a bag of rats I enjoyed it immensly (See even I have difoolgaltys with spelling ) We camped on a football field nr Brain Arnoud ?with the 95th & KGL great time .
Regards Rudyard

I probably saw you!

 

[Rudyard]

Couldn't miss me. White spatter dashes same as depicted on a later painting of Gordons but painted years later by Felix Fillipottaux? But the rest wore grey. Unlike like the pipe band I borrowed them from they being later had the white ones . .Gunna is vulgar'' going to ' would be more correct .Nice pistols
.Regards Rudyard