Underhammer MLs from Blue Grouse Black Powder

[joliver]

Does anybody have any experience with the H&A style underhammers available from Blue Grouse Black Powder--quality, accuracy, customer service, etc.? I was on their website yesterday and their prices seem pretty reasonable.

Jerry Oliver

:: :thanks:

 

[Bob Riegl]

Personally I just bought an older H & A kit from Deer Creek and it was in good shape---the stock was a dog to get rid of the tool marks---There are some "detractors" of Blue Grouse---who have complained about "rough barrels" etc., etc.---I never got the warm & fuzzies when trying to deal with him. The price of the kit should be ~$225-275---this is in the white---don't buy the propaganda that it's 95% finished and only requires some sanding and browning. The barrel and action need some minor polishing with an abrasive block---but the stock is machine duplicated and I put in a couple of hours with a Foredom flexible shaft tool with a Gold Kutzall cylinder to bring the stock to shape, before the days of sanding began---but it finished nicely---the forestock requires some shaping and fitting as well---the inletting is OK---but once again be prepared to work to get a shape. I am now in the browning stage and that is proceeding according to plan---I should be finished in a day and then to neutralize the acid and stop the rusting, then off to the range---good luck. :imo:

 

[joliver]

Pasquenel,

Unfortunately, I am all thumbs, i.e., no handworking skills. So I'm looking for something that requires little or no finishing. I notice that Blue Grouse has some used rifles for sale on their website, but I'm a little bit skeptical about buying something that I can't put my hands and eyes on, "in the flesh."

Jerry :hmm:

 

[walruskid1]

call bruce at blue grouse, the man is a class act all the way. :imo:

 

[Protrucker]

I ordered a .36 Buggy Rifle from Bruce right after Christmas and was told that it would be shipped the first week of February. Then I was told that it would be shipped the second week of February. On April 18, I was told that he was still waiting for the barrels. Today I got a response to an email I sent out yesterday. Just more excuses! :curse: I'm going to tell him to send my money back.

 

[Slamfire]

I believe his supplier, Deer Creek, is having a major problem. He'd better find another soon, or he's gonna suffer for it. :shake:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I'm sure that Deer Creek has taken a hard knock from CVA dropping all the sidelock guns. Then there's Ox-Yoke too.
It's really hard to keep up with things when many of your suppliers "deal you a bad hand".

I got my Deer Creek H&A Underhammer from Union Creek Muzzleloading. I think that all the standard .36, .45, and .50 cal H&A Underhammer rifles (both the Heritage and Buggy models) are coming from Deer Creek Products, so they've got a lot of "supplying" to do. Mine was drop shipped from Deer Creek, even though I bought from Union Creek. I'd suspect that Blue Grouse does the same thing.

There was more wood working needed on my "kit" than metal work, but I wasn't disappointed at all. The trigger pull was exceptionally nice. I think the Underhammers are a pretty neat gun for the price--and especially if you're a lefty. I'd like to see them make the Buggy rifle in .32 caliber and also make the Heritage rifle in .54, .58, & .62 calibers too.

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[riarcher]

Always thought an underhammer shotgun (smoothbore) would be awsome in the woods,,,, especially a double. :imo:
Never heard of one though.

 

[faw3]

i havent talked to them in a month or so ( deercreek) they should not of paid for the barrels up front sometime trust is a one way street. ive been trying to get another one buugy rifle and they just wont even take a deposit from me ill give them a call when i get out of hospital and let you know what givers this has been 6,7, months? it is not them its who the barrles come from. :front:

 

[Old40Rod]

For what its worth, no knocks on anybody, just my experience:

I think you can purchase all the Deer Creek rifles directly from Deer Creek without going through a middleman. They have a catalog. I have only purchased a .36 CVA "squirrel" rifle from Deer Creek for my youngest son, transaction went just fine but I was buying CVA product... There are lots of posts dealing with Deer Creek's own products. If you think the middleman will give you additional service or help, by all means use a middleman.

Re: Blue Grouse... Before I bought my son the .36, I was looking at underhammers or a kit .32 for us to work on together. I looked at Deer Creek's kit .32s and noticed the ones from Blue Grouse, on Auction Arms, I think. The Blue Grouse guy was helpful and answered several questions I had concerning underhammers. Later, however, I made the mistake of asking him if his .32 kit was the same as Deer Creek's...his were a bit higher priced so I thought perhaps his might be from a different supplier, better components, etc. Suffice it to say, he was not appreciative of my inquiry. Much to my surprise I was immortalized in the text of his Auction Arms ads for awhile to the effect of "can you believe the guy had the nerve to ask me...." (My wife could have told him that if he had just asked her)

I can't honestly say I was a Blue Grouse "customer", as I ended up purchasing from Deer Creek directly. I can say, without fear of contradiction, that I WAS a potential customer, and will not be in the future.

 

[jimbo15563]

Old40,

I caught the underhammer bug after I saw the Blue Grouse website and I'm having one built (see my thread in the Builder's bench section - - - Jimbo's Underhammer).

I had several conversations with him and eventually bought the action. I didn't get good vibes. He was evasive in answering some of my questions and some of the stuff advertised on his website wasn't available. I must have offended him like you did, because he didn't respond to my last messages or emails. Like you, I WAS a potential customer, but I decided to get my parts elsewhere. I am going to buy conical bullets from him because they are reasonably priced.

I have also heard some complaints about the quality of Deer Creek products, particularly their barrels. A poster in another forum said they bought the equipment from the Douglas Barrel Company but don't do a good job using it. I ordered my barrel from Ed Rayl, which is supposed to be ready in September.

Jimbo

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I try very hard to not make disparaging remarks about a person that I've never actually bought from, BUT it's still all too easy to do a little investigative "leg work", by making a few well-placed phone calls and inquiries on different forums. I believe you can get a reasonably accurate picture of the kind of person & company they are; and the product that you are considering purchase of.

Don't be too hard on Deer Creek barrels having rougher bores, they are "cut rifled" and not "button rifled" or "hammer forged" like many other companies use. Yes, you can get cut rifled barrels that are very nice and smooth, but no doubt they've been lapped, and you can be certain that cost has been added to the price of the gun or kit. I try to avoid dealing with companies that hesitate in answering specific questions about where they get their components, or people that "er" and "uh" and "umm" me around while they try to think up a good lie to tell. That's just NOT the way to earn my business--or my trust and respect either! Deer Creek has always been there for me when I needed something (a kit, a gun, a part, questions answered), and that says a lot about the integrity of the people. They have suppliers that they have to wait on too, just like anyone else in muzzleloading business.

Remember also, that the drastic hit from CVA eliminating all of it's handguns and it's sidelock flint and percussion guns hasn't really made the impact that will inevitably follow... There aren't too many of us that can say that we've never used a CVA product at some point in time. It didn't have to necessarily be a gun, but any of their extensive lineup of accessories as well. And don't get me started on that dirty 6-letter word that starts with an "I" and ends with an "NLINE", or I'll get violently and copiously ill. The perceived demand for "that thing" is the reason that CVA has "dumped" on us. Now I'll have to wash the keyboard off for typing those 6 letters that closely together.

It's easy for all of us to make at least one(1) mistake with every other person we meet during out life. Why is it that a business can't make just one(1) mistake as well...? Okay... granted, it might be a very big or expensive mistake, but at least give them a chance to correct it... then, if they mess up again, it's time to look somewhere else.

Trying to keep my mistakes to a minimum,
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Slamfire]

I haven't bought any of the kits or parts from Bruce, but did pick up a Numrich stamped buggy rifle from him on Auction Arms. He sent the gun well packed in a timely manner and included a lot of accessories that I didn't expect. When I queried him about a replacement for the original sights he told me were to get what I wanted cheaper than he could sell it to me. I'd do business with him again.
If a Numrich buggy rifle is attractive to you there's another available at:
Auction Arms

 

[faw3]

.I think you got it right cant make every body happy. I got 2 Buggy rifles end of laast year, ya the stock took a day or two of work, and Ill take a rifled barrel any day, even on that old thing he uses he sent a Deer Creek rifle in 54 for my birthday 27th july (ive been in hospital a while and its touch and go) the barrel is babby butt smooth inside my 15 yr old shot it and brouth the targets up ,,just like the old lyman load book said it shoots the short old lyman minie about as well as the ball (was going to get a uberti hawken cause it looks more hawken than GPR , Ilike the last kind made thick wrist and not so much stock drop, but who has a UB hawken?) I did ask about the barrel deal they (DRCRK) had 3 sent back. and Blue Iwas going to get a few of his things but if Jimbo is going to pass Im sure not going to give it another thought. and thats my 2 4 6 bits on it you all shoot safe, and if you need a barrel for your underhammer I got my big boys 1 1/4 x26 50 and 62 from mr smith at long hammock. :front:

 

[hawkeye2]

Does Deer Creek have a website. A friend had an H&A underhammer 40 years ago and it was atack driver, been meaning to pick one up myself, just been putting it off.

 

[walruskid1]

if somebodies looking for a buggy rifle, i have a .50 with a new barrel built on a hopkins and allen receiver. stock has patchbox, brass buttplate. pm me for details. dave

 

[Bear Rider]

IIRC, H&A also made a version of the buggy rifle with a pistol style grip, a stock that detached aft of the grip, and, I believe, a tube sight -- all in a nice fitted wood case. I saw one article on it in a shooting mag long, long ago.

 

[squirrelshooter]

For what its worth, no knocks on anybody, just my experience:

I think you can purchase all the Deer Creek rifles directly from Deer Creek without going through a middleman. They have a catalog. I have only purchased a .36 CVA "squirrel" rifle from Deer Creek for my youngest son, transaction went just fine but I was buying CVA product... There are lots of posts dealing with Deer Creek's own products. If you think the middleman will give you additional service or help, by all means use a middleman.

Re: Blue Grouse... Before I bought my son the .36, I was looking at underhammers or a kit .32 for us to work on together. I looked at Deer Creek's kit .32s and noticed the ones from Blue Grouse, on Auction Arms, I think. The Blue Grouse guy was helpful and answered several questions I had concerning underhammers. Later, however, I made the mistake of asking him if his .32 kit was the same as Deer Creek's...his were a bit higher priced so I thought perhaps his might be from a different supplier, better components, etc. Suffice it to say, he was not appreciative of my inquiry. Much to my surprise I was immortalized in the text of his Auction Arms ads for awhile to the effect of "can you believe the guy had the nerve to ask me...." (My wife could have told him that if he had just asked her)

I can't honestly say I was a Blue Grouse "customer", as I ended up purchasing from Deer Creek directly. I can say, without fear of contradiction, that I WAS a potential customer, and will not be in the future.

I WAS also a POTENTIAL CUSTOMER. this is the same guy, at Blue grouse, that when I e-mailed him and asked how his 32 cal. maxis shot out of the Crockett's, he replied "I don't feed foreigners" and that was the last I heard from him.

 

[Rebel]

That doesn't sound like the Bruce i dealt with. I ordered some .32 cal, rd balls from him for my Crockett and he sent me some .32 maxi's to try in it at no extra charge. Talked with him on the phone a couple of times, and he was very polite and helpful. Maybe he has someone working for him now that is answering e-mails and phone calls?

 

[walruskid1]

having done business with bruce several times, i just want to add my two cents. i've never had anything but professional and business like conduct from bruce. i have a purchase pending with him now. everybody is entiteled to an opinion. i'm basing mine on the way i was treated, not somebody else. and i'm getting off topic.