I have read about native Americans using undersized balls in trade guns and fowlers. I am curious if anyone has tried using .562 balls in a 20 gauge fowler, and how that worked out.
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Undersized balls
- Thread starter markdwhite15
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Would probably work reasonably well a shorter ranges. As smoothies are shot the barrel get effectively smaller with crud build up. Unlikely Indians, or anyone, would take time to swab between shots when fighting or hunting. Therefore smaller balls will keep you in the game.
hanshi
Cannon
I've fired .590" ball from my smoothbore. I used a thicker patch than usual and also 2 patches a few times. While accuracy was only "okay" it wasn't anything to brag about. I would trust it deer hunting at around 50 to 60 yards however.
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
I've shot .580" balls with .020" patching from my 20 ga. gun. And if that's all the ammunition I had on hand, I'd never think twice about it.
Interesting, if I remember correctly the big trading outfits back in the day were mostly stocking .555 balls and powder imported from England or France.
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This is why I don't see the point of loading a smoothbore real tight
I made paper cartridges of military style with .570 and they shot well enough for hunting at fifty yards
And if you loaded with shot?
The traders stocked a lot of "swan" shot too, probably effective at close range. Been thinking about getting a fowler, probably 20 gauge, and I have a lot of .562 balls and mold already.
Lee .60 ball molds are like $33, why shoot those itty bitty balls? ; ). That said, I too have a quantity of .562 balls that happened to come out slightly under size. They slide cleanly but slowly with a little “whistle” down my .56 smoothbore Renegade and shoot great.
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Cause I have 460 of em, and they fit my .58 Hawken too.
Being a stickler for optimum accuracy with my rifled & smoothbore firearms requires a proper powder charge & patch & ball combo.
Shooters who have no interest in accuracy & just want to hear a boom, a little powder, collection of rocks, BBs & whatever for wadding will likely obtain the desired results.
Shooters who have no interest in accuracy & just want to hear a boom, a little powder, collection of rocks, BBs & whatever for wadding will likely obtain the desired results.
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I am very interested in accuracy. I shoot in competition monthly. I am just saying that if loading things up extra tight doesn't gain any accuracy then why do it
In years past I competed monthly with a great club. In those times I had a few really nice flintlocks (pre divorce) One was a 20 gauge flintlock fowler built by a pal in the club, Ken Netting. Quality of that fowler was top notch, I tried many different load combinations trying to find a winning load for the smooth bore matches. I shot it from 10 to fifty yards. Went from easy loading combos that kept the ball seated, to loads so tight they had to be hammered home. None really stood out for accuracy. After reading historical accounts about the loads my Shawnee grandpas used, I was curious just how close they had to get to hit anything. Personally, I think they should have stayed with their bows.
We can agree on tight loads to a degree..
Those of us who have been successful at winning in ML competition have learned that a tight load will increase accuracy, but only if the correct sized ball & patch combo & powder charge is used for the depth of rifling & rate of twist in the barrel of the firearm.
A proper PRB combination is even more important for accuracy in barrels with shallow rifling when heavier charges are used to avoid blow-by & shredded patches.
Example;
Most shooters long time competitors will agree if your shooting a .50 cal. barrel with a .500 bore diameter & .006 deep rifling & are using .490 dia. balls & thick patches to make up the difference for a snug fit, that rifle won't produce as tight of groups if you use a .495 RB & lubed patches that are in the .010-.012 thickness range.
Hopefully this long winded response will also help some newer members who new to muzzleloading & are trying to get their front stuffers to shoot tight groups..
Those of us who have been successful at winning in ML competition have learned that a tight load will increase accuracy, but only if the correct sized ball & patch combo & powder charge is used for the depth of rifling & rate of twist in the barrel of the firearm.
A proper PRB combination is even more important for accuracy in barrels with shallow rifling when heavier charges are used to avoid blow-by & shredded patches.
Example;
Most shooters long time competitors will agree if your shooting a .50 cal. barrel with a .500 bore diameter & .006 deep rifling & are using .490 dia. balls & thick patches to make up the difference for a snug fit, that rifle won't produce as tight of groups if you use a .495 RB & lubed patches that are in the .010-.012 thickness range.
Hopefully this long winded response will also help some newer members who new to muzzleloading & are trying to get their front stuffers to shoot tight groups..
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But the topic was trade guns & Fowlers.
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Yeah , give them a try ...never know . Ive only shot the traditional under sized ball out of my 20 ga. S ... .595, .600 . Some barrels prefer a patched round ball and others shoot a naked ball just as well as a patched ball ...why ? No clue ... Once you figure out what a gun prefers , your golden . Have fun
Just double patch or use something real thick. It does work, especially with a firewall blocking gasses.
Swan shot was American #2. Shot heavy enough to kill a swan or goose.
Today people veil call odd shaped home made shot swan, but back in the day it was a size for water fowl
Pardon my not mentioning smooth bore in my previous response..
I think most long time ML shooters might agree with the following.
Years ago when I actively operated my ML stores I always offered to measure bores & provide loading recommendations to my customers & to people who just walked it with a gun purchased elsewhere.
I've found that the patch & ball combination I mentioned previously works equally well for smooth bores as well, if accuracy is the goal & you won't need a mallet to load.
Example; If the bore is in good shape & the I.D measures .620,, a .610 RB & a lubed .015 patch will load easy, shoot accurate & also prevent excessive fouling buildup. Yes a .620 RB & thicker patch might work equally well.
This type of info. might help new guys on the forum get going with less hassle & disappointments that often run off new shooters.
I & many others have always felt that the above loading recommendations should have been included with all new
& custom ML guns.
Relic shooter
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