Uneducated Folks

[DBox]

My wife, who is a probation officer, went to their Christmas lunch Friday. When she got home she was talking about what all went on. She said that some of them were talking about hunting and she told them that I had started back after a 5 year sabatical and had taken a young buck a few days before. She and I have shot a lot of law enforcement competitions and do better than most. We have won several of their matches in the past. One of the guys asked what I was shooting and Yvonne answered a muzzle loader. He said the modern MLs were so much better than the old ones. Yvonne said that I was using and old one. He said that I probably had to let the big deer go because I was using and old one. She said this was not the case since I pretty much hit what ever I shot at. I love my wife!

 

Fine gal. :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

He said that I probably had to let the big deer go because I was using and old one.

It is simply incredible that so much of that attitude exists about "old" muzzleloaders...and one who publishes that very line of manure at every turn is TB.

 

[Halftail]

It's my experience that if your own Wife won't "Toot" your horn,you must be a real Doodlehead!
She sound like a keeper. :thumbsup:

 

[Smk50]

I was at Cableas last night and overheard(well I was in the ML section,so I was evesdropping) and the plastic is always placed on a pedestal apparently the old style wont work anymore,just isnt easy enough. I was the vp of our club and now am elected pres for the new year, I always do whatever it takes to promote ML in general and traditional at every opportunity, but it just seems we cant even get a little break. Its all the same principle(powder,patch or plastic, and the projectile) so tell me how they are any different or any easier. Its all in the marketing and the margin is higher on the others so the trad. fall throught he cracks, because of the power of the dollar.

 

[No Grease]

That is about it. I was at a gun show yesterday and spied a CVA box. I asked if there was a muzzle loader in it and he said yes. Opened it up and it was a inline. I mentioned that I was looking for a traditional style and he stated that it was easier to use these and they worked better. I politely informed him that both are easy to use and clean and he looked at me closed the box and ignored the rest of the info. It is getting a little difficult to latch on to a good deal on the traditional ones. Everyone pushes the electric or inline stuff and are dropping the traditional type. Even some of the manufacturers are doing this. I think it is a shame that it is happening.

 

[roundball]

More and more people want quick & easy...don't want to take the time to learn, figure things out, master them, etc...want to buy the rifle prezeroed in a big blisterpac, put a big scope on it, drive to a stand location that's precisely 25 yards to an automatic corn dispensing feeder, sit in stand, shoot an unsuspecting deer when it walks up, then go tell everybody they're a muzzleloader hunter !!!!

They WANT the association with the term muzzleloader as that denotes skill was required...but they cheat at every step of the way to get the end result...that's going to kill off future generations faster than anything because they're raising their kids that way right now...they put them in the stand, let them shoot deer standing knee deep in a corn pile, and give them a high five exclaiming they're now a muzzleloader deer hunter...IMO, it's really pretty sorry to tell the truth

 

[bucktales]

Good woman you have there. :thumbsup:
I work with and know a lot of Police officers from many local depts. from road jobs. It amazes me how many know so little about firearms in general, let alone ML's. Some barely know enough of their Glock to even qualify. Not saying they have to be gun geeks, but jeeeze. :shake:

 

[kevthebassman]

The misinformation is all over out there. You've got the gunrag hucksters peddling the latest wares of the gun manufacturers, and their writing is taken as gospel and parroted by every schmuck who fancies himself an authority like the hunter education instructors and the guy behind the gun counter.

IMHO, the inlines are much harder to clean than a hooked breech design. I helped a buddy clean his spankin' new inline, and man those breech plug threads were a pain in the @$$ to clean. I'll take a sidelock any day.

 

[Maynerd62411]

A friend of mine bought a used in-line and I had to go over and figure out how to take it apart and clean it. Mine are about 1/2 hour easier. They should print the instructions on the stock of those things. GHEEZZZZ :surrender:

 

[rdoggsilva]

I have been hunting and shooting sidelocks for over 35 years now. I still have people amazed that a sidelock and prb will bring down a mule deer or elk. Also how easy they are to clean and maintain. I guess TB really has them brain washed. :shake:

 

[kevthebassman]

I like the shock some of the centerfire shooters get when they hear that my Renegade slings 370 grain bullets.

Another trick that people can't get over is the spitpatch between shots to keep the barrel clean. I was at the range playing around with my second batch of home cast conicals and put 50 downrange without taking a break to clean other than spitpatching, and the guys there were amazed.

 

[tg]

"
More and more people want quick & easy...don't want to take the time to learn, figure things out, master them, etc"

How true, there is a simple way to change this, the seasons must be returned to the traditional side of the coin, no conicals or modern sights. very simple but the job of implimentation is huge given that a great number of "traditional " hunters like the modern bullets and sights I think that for the sake of hanging onto some modern components as mentioned above the traditional side has little hope of creating true ML season for traditional gear and in time will likley put an end to the production level tradional ML, leaving no choice but the modern guns and gear. I have seen this often on this forum many rant and rave about wanting to get back the traditional seasons then praise the Ballets and fiber optics and high tech peeps, the fence will not hold up with so many riding it, and I think the numbers who understand and accept the PRB only and primitive sights approach are becomming a smaller and smaller slice of the pie as forums like this choose to lighten up the definition of traditional and fuel the modern gear fire.

 

[slowpokebr549]

I always smirk when I hear about how much easier it is to clean an inline.My buddy with his inline has a much more complicated chore to clean his.We spent some time at the range together this fall. I got off more shots without swabbing. My .58 outshot his plastic gun at all but the longest ranges(due mostly to my eyes), and I could clean my rifle about twice as fast.When teased about all of the above he still stubbornly insists that his rifle is easier to use.Easier how, someone please explain it to me. :surrender:

 

[doulos]

I just saw a hunting show on TV called Whitewater Trails. The host Bodie something or other was talking about the difference in shotgun slugs and then he got on the subject of muzzleloading projectiles. Of course he sang the praises of sabots and pellets , briefly showed a Tc maxiball and then made a recommendation to not use roundballs because they are so innaccurate. I wish these hosts would just shut up if they dont really know something. Im with ya on the cleaning. A hooked breech gun is so much easier to clean than an inline it isnt funny.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't get the oudoor channel here, so I looked up the show on the computer, and just sent this letter to Mr. Bodie Owens, the host. You might send your own message directly to him, too.

Mr. Owens: I don't get your show locally, but just read where you supposedly told an audience NOT to use a Patched Round Ball and Black Powder for hunting because they are so 'Inaccurate". Did you actually say such a thing?

If you don't know how to load and shoot a flintlock or a traditional sidelock percussion gun, then don't embarrass yourself by talking about things you don't know about.

The traditional flint or cap and ball rifle was capable of, and is still capable of, extraordinary accuracy, within the limits of iron sights. On deer sized animals, the patched round ball (PRB) is perhaps the most successful killing projectile every made. ( That includes on humans, too.) The soft lead ball expands in soft tissue, creates a huge primary wound channel, and tends to fly straight through soft tissue rhat than veer off course, where it might miss the intended target, vital organs.

There are way too many hunters trying to find the same LONG RANGE capabilities with ML rifles that they have with Scoped suppository guns. Most whitetail deer are killed inside 50 yards. Not 250 yards. Few modern shooters can shoot even a scoped wonderstick well enough to put a bullet where its needed to kill a deer at 200 yards and beyond, much less accurately estimate range over rough ground. The current marketing of zip guns to " qualify " as Ml rifles for some state deer seasons, using smokeless powder, smokeless primers, plastic sabots, and copper jacketed pistol bullet has nothing to do with Traditional Muzzle Loading shootiing or hunting. It just a clever attack on bureaucratic red tape.

I have a couple of articles on Tuning and Shooting flintlocks, and on Off-hand and Trick shooting, using MLer rifles which you can read on[url] Muzzleloaderforums.com[/url], or at[url] ChuckHawks.com[/url], if you are interested. Even the fast twist barrel found on the zip guns will shoot PRB loads if they are kept at a reasonable powder charge level. It is the weight, not the velocity of the lead round ball that gives it the ability to penetrate flesh. That is a totally unknown concept to shooters of modern guns using smokeless powder and jacketed bullets.

I hope you will put on a show, with someone who really knows what Black Powder guns are all about, to correct any error you may have made.

Sincerely.


Paul H. Vallandigham

 

[roundball]

"...I wish these hosts would just shut up if they dont really know something..."

And it's not just those TV show hosts...it's on muzzleloading forums too...there are people constantly giving advice who you immediately realize don't have hands on experience with much or they wouldn't be advocating the particular things that they do...the fear is that newbies don't know better and lap it right up

 

[faw3]

And even the NMLRA pushes this same sh....... :barf: stuff. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[MikeChapin]

"
...I have seen this often on this forum many rant and rave about wanting to get back the traditional seasons then praise the Ballets and fiber optics and high tech peeps, the fence will not hold up with so many riding it, and I think the numbers who understand and accept the PRB only and primitive sights approach are becomming a smaller and smaller slice of the pie as forums like this choose to lighten up the definition of traditional and fuel the modern gear fire.

Hear, Hear! :thumbsup:

 

Wonereful wife you have there! The guy she was speaking to is an idiot and should stick to knitting.