Unethical Hunters???

[Roguedog]

Unfortunately, I have had animals that I did not recover. I did however try as hard as humanly possible to find them. Even then, it made me sick to my stomach and I felt terrible. Losing an animal that you know you have hit fatally is a terrible thing and something I try very hard to avoid.

A few years ago, I made what I thought was a good shot on a doe. I followed the sparse blood trail for a while and since it was evening, I had to make the decision to continue trailing the animal and possibly risk pushing her further or to let her lay down and recover her in the morning. I went with option A and upon picking up the trail in the morning, I found her about a 100 yards away. Sadly, the coyotes had done got to her and had cleaned the back half of the carcass to the bone. I felt bad about not forging on ahead the previous evening. Sometimes things happen. Not following up and trying hard to recover the animal is not one of them.

Jeff

 

[Wes/Tex]

Oh yes, it happens and sometimes it's just fate....I have no problem with that scenario. It's unfortunate but sometimes it just happens. What twists my guts are those, who if the deer, bear, what have you, doesn't go down and stay down, will vaguely look around and go somewhere else to hunt since they "must have missed"!

 

[kituwa]

Unfortunatly there are a lot of hunters that do not know anything about tracking wounded animals and put little to any effort into looking for one they hit that didnt drop in sight.For years any time i heard a story of someone not finding a deer i would drive over to find it for them. After a while they start to call me. I am now the local tracker,lol.If a deer is down, i will almost always find it.If it is not down, the coyotes will find it almost for sure.The lose of meat is sad but the coyotes have to eat too and at least you know there wont be a wounded deer suffering. As to trespassers,,,in my area, if you call the law and they dont find them still on your property then not much of anything is going to happen. When i find them, i arrest them myself, at gun point , and hold them till the sherrif arrives. They go straight to jail then. Last month at 1am i heard a truck driving around in one of our pastures. I looked outside and saw the headlights and knew where they were that they had to have gone trough the fence to get in there. My 19 yo son got out to them before i did and they tried to make a run for it but he shot a few shots in the air and ordered them out of the truck.I thought the shots were them shooting at my son so by the time i caught up to them i was rather homicidal.I marched the two guys about 300 yards across the field with their hands on their head and a dbl barrel shotgun in their back. Made them lay face down in the driveway till the cops got there. They were very polite until the cops arrived and of coarse the cops held my gun for their safty while we did all the paper work. But after they took my gun one of the guys decided he was safe to be an ******* and started saying what he was going to do to me when he got out of jail.So i told him bring it on, i would blow him half into. One deputy laughed and told the guy, guess you will shut up now. We found where they have drove through the fence in 3 different places. They were in jail for 3 weeks, have to pay restitution, fines and probation. The dbl barrel was an original mid 1800's 14 ga muzzel loader full of number 4 buckshot so this story sorta kinda fits in this forum,lol.

 

[sidelock]

I once shot a small buck with my .50 TC at about 10 am. At the shot he went down and back up running. I reloaded and soon started tracking. A drop here and there but mostly tracks. About 1 pm the sign stopped. No drops, no tracks. What the @&$##. Looking around, a small living brush pile in an otherwise open area. Could he be in there? Moving slowly crept forward and soon spotted an ear under the brush, then a eye looking at me. Ended the chase right there but, felt badly about causing the deer so much trama. But he didn't go to waste.

 

[et]

Jay54,
What Unit (or zone) were you in? Most of the late muzzleloader hunts have ATV restrictions as well. I continually hear of folks using pellets in Idaho as it is difficult for game wardens to check and most of the modern ML seem to have duct tape over that tiny little hole that "exposes" the primer.

et

 

[James Stella]

I was in Unit 54 in a Muzzle Loader only hunt.

 

[Old Creek]

Well it was good of you to help.
I am surprised that the bull went down with a gut shot. I have never seen an elk taken completely off his feet with a good hit with a ML.
I am actually wondering if the shot was a high hit that hit a chine bone on the spine. That takes animals off their feet.
I have heard of more than one person shooting multiple elk on those tags. It is my opinion that children should not be putting in for that type of hunt. They lack the knowledge and experience that hunting with a ML takes.
Hopefully the CO is able to find them and check their gear. I can't help but wonder why the adult was packing too unless he planned to either pass the gun off or shoot it him self.

I agree and will go one farther, my grandson is yet to turn 10 and has been pushed for the last 2 seasons to kill a deer with a .410 with slugs, there is nothing wrong on the face of it but he is not emotionally ready for it but all his daddy can see is this boy following in his foot steps. my point I guess is starting a kid off deer hunting before he is ready for it regardless of age is just wrong. I, like most of you probably, trust what daddy taught me and that is a kid should learn to hunt small game and get around in the woods before hunting deer and such.
maybe I am wrong minded but the first deer I killed after killing many of squirrels and other small game was a solemn thing, maybe because squirrels and rabbits look rat like, I don't know but for whatever reason I have never taken joy from a deer kill but getting a limb rat is better than winning the lottery.
I am so afraid this boy who I love more than anything in this world is going to gut shoot a deer and have it suffer needlessly, I have coached him the best I can as to not taking a rushed or iffy shot and that is about all I can do. in his daddys defense my daughter did tell me he took the gun from him last season because he was shaking so bad with buck fever so maybe it will be alright. I took the 7 year old out for squirrels last sunday but the older wouldn't go, I suspect because it aint manly in his learning.

thanks for the chance to vent.

creek

 

[kituwa]

Creek, i completly under stand your thoughts. Last week my 5 year old grandson killed his first squirrel. He ran his hand over its fur and said it was really soft. He admired it for a few minits and then said, ok grandpa, can you make it alive now? Really bothered me. I had to explain to him that death was permanent. I did not realize that he did not understand death yet.In a way i guess it was a good thing for him to understand now that life and death are part of life and not to be taken lightly.I told him that we would eat the squirrel like we always do, that it would not go to waste. Now maybe he will realize that nature is real,is life and that every animal is more than just a moving tin can to shoot at.

 

[Old Creek]

Thanks Kituwa, nice to know your not alone in these things.

creek

 

[Kansas Jake]

I think that is one of the important lessons that children learn from hunting. 75-100 years ago or more most kids grew up on farms and in smaller communities and learned saw where their food came from. It wasn't off a shelf at the super market. Many more also hunted. They learned that life and death were part of life and that hunting or eating meat meant that something died.

Today there is often a disconnect. Your grandson is learning a valuable lesson, although at 5 he may be a little young. Still he will not have that video game disconnect.

 

[Old Creek]

I think that is one of the important lessons that children learn from hunting. 75-100 years ago or more most kids grew up on farms and in smaller communities and learned saw where their food came from. It wasn't off a shelf at the super market. Many more also hunted. They learned that life and death were part of life and that hunting or eating meat meant that something died.

AMEN.

creek

Today there is often a disconnect. Your grandson is learning a valuable lesson, although at 5 he may be a little young. Still he will not have that video game disconnect.

 

[Spikebuck]

my grandson is yet to turn 10 and has been pushed for the last 2 seasons to kill a deer with a .410 with slugs, there is nothing wrong on the face of it but he is not emotionally ready for it

My grandson is 10 and being indoctrinated by participating without a weapon. I've taken him squirrel hunting and his dad let's him sit with him while bowhunting deer. He wants to take a weapon, but he's not ready.

I have used dead squirrels to not only talk about the permanency of death in the animal, but also to push home the lesson that playing with guns, or being careless with guns, bows, or other potentially dangerous things can result in the same end for humans he loves. Safety is always of utmost importance.

Hopefully this preparation will lead him to understand life and death, the need to be accurate to have a quick kill, and put him on the path to being an ethical, caring hunter.

 

[Old Creek]

my oldest began his education with the explanation from his daddy that we kill rats because they steal our food at about 2 years old. I was amazed at how well he understood that. they started on gun safety not long after walking, their dad hunts with hounds so it was pretty easy for him to take them along. they both get the kill to eat thing to, I can just see the reluctance in the older one. the younger will never give it a second thought, two very different personalities between the two of them. I suspect the older is going to more of a hiker than hunter. they both hike with me but the older can do longer trips, I just got back a few weeks ago from the over mountain trail area in the roan highlands with him and he did very well other than a touch of home sickness, not so much as a blister, I cramped in the legs the whole time. them mountains is way different from this flat ground and my hat is off to all you guys who travel them hills by foot.

creek

 

[swathdiver]

Many youngsters have to be pushed into doing something for the first time. Take swimming for example, how many of you had to throw a kid into the pool so they would start swimming?

Then some may have one or more children who are a little slow to catch on to the rules firearm safety or scuba diving for example. They do not understand that breaking the rules will result in death or serious injury.

Whomever is mentoring them will soon learn what they are and are not ready to do.

 

[Roguedog]

Well said Spike.

Jeff

 

[Roguedog]

Even now, after all the years I've been hunting, I still have a bittersweet feeling after making a kill, whether that be a squirrel or a deer. I get absolutely no pleasure out of simply killing something. And if I am going to hunt and kill, I want to do it as humanely and cleanly as possible and also put the meat to use after the kill. These are great lessons for our youngsters to learn.

Jeff

 

[majg1234]

Agree with ya on that.It's always bitter sweet and hopefully never will change.I'm trying to pass this along to my grandson that is my hunting buddy.Much as my grandfather taught me.These times and critters are so much a gift and should be respected as such :thumbsup:

 

[Old Creek]

Roguedog what you wrote and the Majg reflects my thoughts and feelings. my daddy would have no part of wasting anything and my brother and I learned early that there would be a severe reckoning if we were to waste game. we believed him.

 

[sidelock]

I bought my son a BB gun when he was 5 years old. He was aware of guns from his birth. I left the hospital and bought him a pair of cap pistols and a baseball glove. We kept his BB gun in the gun cabinet with my others and only took it out when he wanted to shoot TARGETS which was a 4' sq. box. He had a hard time hitting the box for a while and would get bored, at which time we took the gun back to the cabinet. Soon I drew a target on the box and continued the same practice and the target grew smaller and smaller. At 9 I bought him a 20 ga. and let him start shooting squirrels and rabbits. At 12 he killed his first deer with my 16 ga. shotgun. At 14 I bought him a 30.06 and he started hunting deer on his own. He got interested in black powder about 5 years ago and did his first build flintlock and has killed deer with it and now shoots in the NSSA matches with his original. My son and I started my grandson pretty much the same way. My grandson hunts every year with BP and has killed wall hangers. Both of these guys are great shots and I don't know how I could be more proud.

 

[Spikebuck]

Sounds like an excellent progression. I also bought my grandson a BB gun several years ago. Over time his skills with it have increased a lot and I started him shooting targets with a .22 last year, which he took to very well. He's pretty small in stature, so I think a .410 might be the next best step.