US wolves taken off endangered list, clearing way for hunting

[RC]

oh! got ya now! would be interesting to hear from someone who actually has to live with this problem....how they handle it, what the gov't does/doesn't do to help them.. be interestin... :hmm: RC

 

[roundball]

I don't know why there is no response yet, but to be honest, I'd find it hard to believe that a government agency reimburses anybody if they lose a head of livestock to a cougar, bear, wolf, coyote, eagle, etc, etc, etc....seems like I would have heard of that in my 61 years by now :shocked2:

 

[BRUN]

Here ya go.Check it out. http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ams/wolf.htm

 

[barebackjack]

First off I completely agree with you that man as a whole is not a noble creature, but, your statment echoes of bunny hugging, liberal peta members who want to shut down all hunting, trapping, and take your guns away.
Yes man has done alot of stupid things in the past, and will probably do alot more stupid things. What we did to the buffalo was stupid, but they are not extinct, and could not co-exist with man in the wild. Where did the buffalo roam......the prairie, what is the prairie now, your giant breadbasket.

No, my family has never lost an animal to wolves, we dont have an established wolf population here .....yet. (Very rarely get a straggler if any for that matter). However, we have lost LOTS of animals to coyotes. Now a BIG coyote is still only half the size of an average wolf. And haveing seen first hand what coyotes do to sheep, turkeys, calves, heifers, and even full grown cows, not to mention cats and dogs, there is no way I would tolerate wolves.
I went to school however with a kid whos family ranched in the yellowstone country of montana, and he has some wolf depredation stories. As well as some renegade buffalo stories.
Im not advocating the extinction of the species, but we have to face facts, wolves just dont co-habitat well with humans. Wolves are fine in remote areas of canada and alaska, maybe even a few select areas in the rockies, but most of the US is populated. Theyve been having problems with coyotes in california snatching dogs and cats and even a few accounts of attempted child attacks. Now thats a 20-45 coyote, what if that was a 100+ pound wolf? Do you really want those things prowling around your neighborhood? I bet not. Just like I dont want them prowling around a pasture full of my weanlings.

And yes, you can get reimbursed for depredation losses......sometimes. We have been getting alot of "experts" here in that department, and the last ten years its been a joke. They have to have whats it called...undeniable doubt that it was in fact such and such an animal (most couldnt tell a coyote track from a moose) and with all the hassle, its easier to shoot them on sight and keep the population somewhat in check.
You cannot bring a species like this into the any area of the US and not have encounters with it. There are just to many people and our country is just to populated. Wolves are secretive, but with increased human contact, they will soon loose this and be sneaking around suburbia snackin aunt delores's poodle. And heaven forbid, somebodies 4 year old.
Species such as wolves are best left to remote wilderness areas which sadly are few and far between.

 

[barebackjack]

I would also like to say that species were evolving and going extinct long before man even showed his ugly mug. Nobody wants to see a species vanish forever, but, look at it this way, man (like it or not) is part of mother nature. We are just another animal. And perhaps, this is just mother natures way.

Kinda playing devils advocate there for a second. Extinction sucks.

 

[barebackjack]

Oh yeah, and I am but a humble farmer/rancher.

 

[BRUN]

your statment echoes of bunny hugging, liberal peta members who want to shut down all hunting, trapping, and take your guns away.



I went to school however with a kid whos family ranched in the yellowstone country of montana, and he has some wolf depredation stories.


Do you really want those things prowling around your neighborhood? I bet not. Just like I dont want them prowling around a pasture full of my weanlings.

Thats what I was talking about"I know this one guy who had it happen"Not the answer I was looking for but it will have to do. :shake:


And the things that prowel in my neighborhood are bears and mountain lions.Yes in town.A lion got fried on a power pole here in town awhile back.But no attacks "yet".

Well Hillary and my bunny need some huggin.Gotta go. :rotf:

 

[BRUN]

In Idaho, where anti-wolf sentiments run high, Governor Butch Otter has called for the killing of 550 wolves, or 85 percent of the state's wolf population. In the federally approved plan submitted by state game managers, Idaho would manage at least 150 wolves.

I see nothing wrong with hunting wolves but killing 550 seems a little excessive.Ill probably get nailed for that. :grin:

Incase anyone is curious on my thoughts on this topic here is my first post on this subject.
Im not a bunny hugger.REALY I'M NOT. :blah: Now Hillary is another story :bull: :rotf:

 

[roundball]

Here ya go.Check it out. http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ams/wolf.htm

Learn something new every day...never would have believed it if I hadn't just read it...thanks !

PS: Per my post above, I'd still kill everyone I saw within close proximity of my family/homestead.

 

[barebackjack]

Here ya go.Check it out. http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ams/wolf.htm

Yup, looks good on the website. But rarely works as smoothly in the real world.

Oh yeah, and we got kitties here too. Only had real numbers for the last five or six years, but guess what, with all the livestock here, it only took 3 years before we had so many depredation losses to them that we had to open a season for em. Since we've been shooting them, depredation losses have fallen off drasticaly.

 

[BRUN]

Here ya go.Check it out. http://www.mda.state.mn.us/ams/wolf.htm

Yup, looks good on the website. But rarely works as smoothly in the real world.

Oh yeah, and we got kitties here too. Only had real numbers for the last five or six years, but guess what, with all the livestock here, it only took 3 years before we had so many depredation losses to them that we had to open a season for em. Since we've been shooting them, depredation losses have fallen off drasticaly.

We have two lion seasons here.Bears also get alot of calves to.Thats what seasons are for,to keep things in check.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Hey Boone,

Keep up the good work up there. I'm a farmer and a rancher. We raise cattle. We dont have too many coyote problems, because we hunt them all winter with dogs and airplanes.

Here in New Mexico, we dont have too much of a problem with the wolves yet. The environwackos haul them in, and the boys shoot them, shovel and shut their mouths. I dont see the wolf ever being successful in reintroduction in New Mexico, I just dont think that the ranchers will allow it to happen.

My GGGrandpa was a buffalo hunter. I still have his .50 rifle. He got wealthy killing buffalo for Fort Wallace and the UP Railroad. Glad he left a few so that the easterners got some to look at now.

Thing is, things are different in the east than they are in the west. It always has been. It probably always will be. Just because somebody in Pennsylvania or New Yourk gets an idea, it doesnt mean that it will work in the West. I was working on a ranch today known as the T4 ranch, it is 384 sections. That is 384 SQUARE MILES. I can tell ya, that the ranch owners there take care of their own problems. Fish and game need not apply for work there. Across the highway is the Bell Ranch which is right at 300,000 acres. These ranches are almost as big as some of your eastern states. Rules of law in this area are made by the landowners. Problems ARE solved by personal decisions and in this country are not considered vigilante justice. It is called, you mess with the bull and you are bound to get the horn.

 

[roundball]

:thumbsup:

 

[ktw]

would be interesting to hear from someone who actually has to live with this problem....

I farm trees on a half million acres in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I live in the country. I have two pre-teen children who play outdoors every day. My wife and I both work out in the woods on a regular basis.

We have wolves. We like having wolves. What we don't like having is so many deer that they start having a huge negative impact on native vegation.

-ktw

 

[RC]

KTW, that is good! wolves doing their part,without botherin what they ain't supposed too. i got nothing against wolves, they have their place and job fer ma nature,, my concern is when there are too many and they start affecting peoples' livilyhood,,(?) would love to get somewhere someday and actually see.and hear one in the wild,an if there was a season,great, if not still something many,many people never have or never will see... any close encounters while you in the woods? do they shy from you or are they pretty brazen..or just curious...RC

 

[bigbore442001]

ktw:

So, how is the deer hunting on the UP? I have heard mixed reports of it being good to poor. Thanks.

 

[ktw]

... any close encounters while you in the woods?

I see one a couple of times a year, usually on the side of the road while driving at night. The logging crews see them quite regularly in the winter. Fresh cut tops draw in the deer and both deer and wolves use the plowed logging roads heavily at that time of the year.

So, how is the deer hunting on the UP? I have heard mixed reports of it being good to poor.

We have around 350,000 deer. Population densities vary widely from north (5-10 per square mile) to south (40-50 per square mile). Humans take around 60,000 annually (hunting, car/deer). Wolves take 15,000-20,000 per year. Winter mortaility runs between 35,000 and 100,000 per year, depending on the severity of the winter.

I think the hunting is great. 70+ percent of the acreage up here is still open to the public. Room to roam and a lot of places where it isn't hard to shoot deer. I harvested a buck and two does last year during the rifle and muzzleloader seasons.

In my experience, most hunters who are disatisfied with their hunting experince tend to have one spot they always hunt from, usually a private parcel, and if they don't see deer in that one spot on a regular basis then their hunting season was terrible. Hunting has changed a lot over the decades; from going out and looking for deer, to drawing deer in to a spot where people want to hunt (via bait, food plots, etc). That is harder to do now, because if you try to sustain unaturally high concentrations of deer in a single spot you also tend to draw in wolves.

Too many people also let what they see on TV unrealistically influence their expectations for success.

-ktw

 

[Todd Rickard]

Reading this topic from begining to end is like watching a a car wreck in slow-mo. It's horrible, but I can't take my eye off the subject.
Here is my 2cents.
I live in a fairly remote part of B.C., prime wolf country. I believe some of the wolves that started the re-population in the US came from here (our govenment SOLD em to yours... If you'd held out a little and been better hagglers, ya could of had em for free!!) . Ranchers in this province run cattle on open range, in the forest, the mountians and the valleys. Crown lands. Wolf preditation is very small. On the other hand moose calves do suffer. I'm not sure, but I think wolf season is open year 'round, but very few wolves are harvested. Our interior wolf is very secretive and is rarely seen. On the other hand the coastal variety is very bold, living and hunting within communities, often taking pets or deer from folks yards.
Hunting ethics is a moral decision made by the individual. You may be comfortable doing something that I would not. As long as we both stay within the law and stay out of each other's way we will get along fine.
I once killed a rattlesnake out of fear, and because of the mean reputation they possess. Later, after working near them and in their area, I learned they really posed no real threat, and I felt remorseful at killing the first one I encountered, out of ignorance. Since then I've been known to stop and move em off the roadside so folks that don't know won't hurt em.
Unless a wolf threatened me or mine I would not be interested in killing it. Same goes for bears. I hunted bear for some time as a youth, but time (and I hope wisdom) has changed that, and I would not likely kill a bear without reason. My code of ethics says it is wrong to hunt game over bait, placed for the purpose of attracting game, but some other folks don't see it that way. Each to their own I guess.
I hope I haven't trod too heavily on anyone's feelings.... just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[hornbuilder]

thank-you !!! :bow: very well stated ..i appreciate the road you traveled from hunter to sportsmen .. its nice to hear that some folks still care for wildlife and their place in nature .
thanks again :hatsoff:

 

[RC]

"""""you traveled from hunter to sportsmen """"...AGAIN? :rotf: :winking: RC