Use of shootingwads

[dhayre]

Over the last 2 years I have been using grease for my 1851 navy and 1860 army ball and cap to seal the chambers, but this week i received some wonderwads that I ordered and just wanted to know for those who use these things if it is better to put them over the powder or the ball or does it even matter.

 

[R.M.]

You put the wad between the powder and ball.
I used grease when I first started, but switched to lubed felt wads. Makes for less mess.

 

[dhayre]

Thats what the instructions say (On the powder)and I will most likely do it that way, but since I already have the guns loaded, I put them on the ball this time. The instructions says you can do it as an alternative.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Grease isn't used to seal the chamber. It is used as lube to keep the ball lubed and the powder fouling soft. I have used lubed wonder wads between the powder and ball and can't tell any difference. I do use Circle fly's 3/8 lubed fiber wads to take up space and put the ball out at the front of the cylinder. They seem to work well as a as a space filler and lube carrier. For cowboy action shooting I like to just use powder then ball with a little CVA patch lube over the ball. Real quick to load that way.
I have a 2nd model dragoon loaded with 40gr and just patch lube over the ball and a Rogers and spencer with 26gr , a 3/8" wad, ball and CVA lube over the ball. I'll use both of them in a Cowboy shoot I'm going to today. With those loads the balls are right at the top of the cylinder with both guns. I may cut down the load on the Dragoon if I start knocking down targets and use the load I have in the Rogers and Spencer.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Thats what the instructions say (On the powder)and I will most likely do it that way, but since I already have the guns loaded, I put them on the ball this time. The instructions says you can do it as an alternative.

You might be able to use them on top of the ball and not have any trouble, BUT, IMHO they could "pop-out" some during recoil and get wedged near the forcing cone of the barrel as the cylinder turns... :redface: don't ask me how I know this, OH, O-K, I'll tell you! A friend of mine forgot her single-shot pistol and I loaned her my revolver. We were at the same match and she was an experienced shooter who had been a member of the bp league longer than I. She didn't ask where to put the wads, and for some reason, didn't already know! Guess she never watched a few thousand of em' get used the right way! She loads the revolver, and put the wads on top of the balls and begins to shoot my gun. One the third shot she can't cock the revolver, due to one the wads rattled loose and jammed up near the back of the barrel. EVERYBODY got an immediate lesson in where to put the wads at that point :shake: , and I pulled the rest of them out of the chambers and applied a small amount of NL 1000 just to be careful. On the second cylinder's worth of fun, NO TROUBLE at all cause the wads were back where they belong!

Now you KNOW why to put the wads UNDER the balls!

Welcome to the forum!

Dave

 

[tv_racin_fan]

One guy I know of uses the wonder wads and grease as well, he terms it the belt and susspenders approach. The grease actually serves two purposes, it prevents chainfires by sparks bypassing the next ball and setting off the powder and it lubes the bore keeping the fouling soft. When I got my first BP revolver I used crisco for the "grease", I got the crisco once and had a chainfire, luckily no one was hurt and I learned my lesson.

 

[renovato]

Grease doesn't prevent crossfires by preventing sparks from entering the chamber. Loose sparks aren't the threat. It's the hot gasses under pressure that are the thing to worry about. Gas under pressure has no trouble pushing through grease. The ball needs to fit tightly enough to seal the chamber. Then the grease does it's job of lubrication.

I went to wads because they gave a slight accuracy advantage, as well as acting as a spacer to get the ball closer to the mouth of the chamber when using light loads. They work great for that. I then went to using granular filler, such as cornmeal. I didn't have much faith in the beginning, but it works almost as well with less fuss. I still use wads an aweful lot though because I find it's a less messy way than lubing over the ball.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Grease doesn't prevent crossfires by preventing sparks from entering the chamber. Loose sparks aren't the threat. It's the hot gasses under pressure that are the thing to worry about. Gas under pressure has no trouble pushing through grease. The ball needs to fit tightly enough to seal the chamber. Then the grease does it's job of lubrication.

I went to wads because they gave a slight accuracy advantage, as well as acting as a spacer to get the ball closer to the mouth of the chamber when using light loads. They work great for that. I then went to using granular filler, such as cornmeal. I didn't have much faith in the beginning, but it works almost as well with less fuss. I still use wads an aweful lot though because I find it's a less messy way than lubing over the ball.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :wink:

Dave

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Interesting that the one time I forgot the grease I got a chainfire then eh? Same gun, same charge, same balls...

I'll not argue the point in either direction, I only know what I experienced on my own dime in my own time.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Grease is used on top the balls for multiple reasons. 1 to seal the chamber from chain fires, although they are rare if the balls are properly sized and shaved on loading. 2 to lube the bore and 3 to keep the residue soft.

I use blue and gray products pistol patch over the balls and there is slightly more mess, but I can reload dozens of times with no appreciable differences.

In my opinion the practice of putting the wad under the ball is prone to problems due to geometry. a felt wad of ball size diameter when pressed against the curved ball will simply no longer be the ball diameter but an arc that is approximately 70% of the ball diameter. That allows the powder residue to contact the bore behind the ball sliding through. If any one can explain how a bore diameter wad is still bore diameter when forced up against the curvature of the ball, I will listen.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Could it be that while the pressure pushes the wad firmly against the ball, it also squishes the wad enough so that the diameter expands? Just a thought. Anyone recover wads and see any evidence that they seal the bore behind the ball? Compare them to unfired to see if they are now slightly larger in diameter?

 

[fyrfyter43]

Anyone recover wads and see any evidence that they seal the bore behind the ball? Compare them to unfired to see if they are now slightly larger in diameter?

I've never measured my used wads, but they do seem to be a bit thinner and likely a bit bigger in diameter. I can also clearly see marks from contact with the rifling. They are clean where they contacted the lands, with black marks at the grooves.

Once the shot is fired, I would imagine that the wad would arch the opposite way as the curve of the ball, and the pressure would flatten them out.

I can tell you without a bit of speculation that my home made wads keep my revolvers much cleaner than any commercially-available wads or even Crisco.

 

[MSW]

what do you use for your homemade wads (i.e. what material). ... and please shre any tricks or tips you might have.

i use powder, then an OS wad cut from paper milk carton material, then cornmeal, thena felt wad soaked in lube, then the ball. i've managed to get the volumes down so that the ball comes to just short of the top of the cylinder.

thanks for any input or corrections in advance!

 

[Mike Brooks]

i use powder, then an OS wad cut from paper milk carton material, then cornmeal, thena felt wad soaked in lube, then the ball. i've managed to get the volumes down so that the ball comes to just short of the top of the cylinder.

Good Golly, It would take me an hour to load a pistol that way! :haha:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I'm not a geometry major, just a target shooter that has thousands of balls out the muzzles. I'm in a very active black powder league. League Chairman's rules specify use of wads on top of the powder (underneath the balls) for safety reasons. We have a common firing line where up to 10 revolver shooters are going at it at the same time. In the almost 5 years that I've shot at this league, not a single chain-fire from the entire line of shooters! This can't be a coincidence, as the odds are too great.

During dry, low humidity conditions, I've spent extra prep time the night before a match wiping a little extra NL-1000 onto the pre-lubed wads, and then stored them in a marked film canister. This keeps the fouling nice & soft and really helps in the accuracy dept. as well :wink:

Putting a greasy revolver back into a leather holster is just wrong :nono: :barf: so wads it is :v

Dave

 

[R.M.]

MSW, I do the exact same thing. It might take a bit longer to load, but when you're just shooting for fun, what's the difference. :wink:
I buy felt from Durofelt online,punch them out and dip them in melted lube.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Sealing the cylinder from chain fires is important both front and back. I have seen two cylinders, blown apart, allegedly secondary to chain fires.

I know guys who use neither grease or wads and have had no problems. not a risk i would incur. I won't even stand next to them at the firing line.

Tha problem as I see it is (1) the wad curves around the ball when the ball is loadedd tight and the powder compressed and (2) when the powder is ignited, the wad is forced up against the curvature of the ball. On some sites folks advvocate using a wad between the powder and the patcched ball, even in muzzleloaders.

Now I do use a grease cookie between the powder and the flat based bullets in BPCR loads.

It would be interesting to put a load into a glass cylinder to see if the wad still seals the bore,

I can't imagine that the force of the pressure from the burning powder wouldn't keep the wad pushed against the ball, until after exit at the muzzle.

Years ago, Lyman did some remarkeable stop action photography with muzzleloaders. For instance catching a shot of a minnie ball exiting and the skirt blowing out. I wonder if anyone has ever caught such a view from a revolver. a shot of the ball and wad a 1/4 inch from the muzzle may be revealing.

Lastly, I regularly use lube on top the ball in a C&B revolver, whether Ruger, Remington or colt style. I have never had the grease blown away from the neighboring cylinders to the point that there wasn't a good coating around the edges of the ball. The stuff I use is (Blue and Gray Pistol Patch) about the consistency of latex caulk. In the old days, alot of folks used fibered water pump grease, which was nearly as stiff as glazing putty.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Having a properly sized ball and a ring of shaved lead in each chamber is the primary defense against the dreaded chain-fire. So is using the correct percussion caps. Having the lubed felt wad under the ball means that something hot has to get past BOTH the ball AND the thickness of the wad. Let's not :dead: . EITHER way is SAFE, and that's what really matters...it's just personal preference and I respect your decision to use the grease/lube/caulk of your choice. :v

Dave

 

[fyrfyter43]

what do you use for your homemade wads (i.e. what material). ... and please shre any tricks or tips you might have.

I copied this from a post I made a while back about the wads I use:

The felt I use is 1/8" thick of hard density from Durofelt (item #FM18H-3). I can cut at least 7500 wads (.44 cal.) out of that sheet of felt for $40.

I make my own lube using the following formula:
2 parts mutton tallow
2 parts paraffin
1 part beeswax

To lube the wads, I put a heaping tablespoon of the lube in a plastic container and melt it in the microwave. I drop 100 wads into the melted lube and stir them with a wooden stick until the wads are saturated and the lube is pretty well solidified. Then I put them in the freezer for about 15 minutes. When I take them out of the freezer, I make sure the wads aren't stuck together, and put them in a different container to take to the range. I spend about 2-3 hours to make and lube 1000 wads.

These wads are stiff enough to keep fouling to a minimum, but still do a good job keeping everything lubed. And on all but the hottest days, the lube is stiff enough that your hands stay pretty clean.

 

[dhayre]

Dave, now your post makes me want to go pull out the wads on top of the ball and put the grease back in until I fire them. The reason I am switching to wads is last time I was out shooting the grease (Crisco) in the other chambers melted after the first 3 shots. Kinda freak me out. But,I do like the grease, it made it easier to clean my revolvers, but will give the wads a try. and thanks guys and gals for all of your input.