Using a Sling/Glove in BP Shooting Competition?

[Al Bently]

The "critical thinking" thing is kind of a problem many new to the sport encounter.
Thinking of course is a good thing,
But when we apply 20th-21st century thinking to a 17th-18th century issue the things we come up with can be surprisingly different than what actually happened or what was in common practice 2-300yrs ago.

Critical thinking is critical thinking -- be it today, Ancient Greece or the Roman Empire. Some people truly cannot think for themselves and that's sad. Even if they absorb good information, the best they can do is regurgitate it without any consideration to mitigating circumstances.

Are you participating in NMLRA sanctioned shoots? If you are then book applies, if not then the range or shoot rules can be vastly different.
Yes, guys use that rib cage/elbow support, some do some don't. I've never seen the carry strap/sling thing allowed in an off hand shoot. Off hand shooting tends to be very limited in using anything other than just simple off hand,, it's the thing that levels the playing field. Those with the skills win without mechanical assistance.

Thanks -- that's been answered.

There are several recent topics about off hand shooting techniques.
Here's some advice you might find useful, watch the guy's that are winning your local matches. Most of them are talkative but can be a bit coy about their techniques/style they've mastered to be winning but with simple observation you can learn a lot.

 

[biliff]

Never been to a shoot (rondyvous or paper punching) that allowed a sling for shooting.

 

[longcruise]

Then I suggest you Google "Revolutionary War Musket Sling." You'll see many historical examples. Slings were commonly made out of linen in years past it seems

As I stated, "I have never observed the use of a sling on an ML other than by some hunters". I don't see much point in googling my own observations! This was in response to your original question:

I'm curious if people here use slings on their rifles when they shoot BP events and/or if it's allowed where they typically shoot?

Critical thinking is not of much use without reading comprehension. Particularly when it regards a failure to remember/comprehend your own question.

 

[Oudoceus]

I don't think anyone (or very few) would use a glove or sling as a shooting aid back in the day due to the mindset of the time. Even if they knew how to do it they would choose not to because they would consider it to be "cheating".

 

[Al Bently]

As I stated, "I have never observed the use of a sling on an ML other than by some hunters". I don't see much point in googling my own observations! This was in response to your original question:

All I did was suggest you widen the breadth of your observations. The "point?" Knowledge.

Critical thinking is not of much use without reading comprehension. Particularly when it regards a failure to remember/comprehend your own question.

So you say...

 

[Billnpatti]

I don't have a current copy of the NMLRA rules but they didn't used to allow the use of slings. Originally, they did not allow the shooter to rest his elbow on his side to steady himself when shooting but that rule was changed some years ago and now it is quite legal to assume a standing position with the elbow of your supporting arm tucked into your side. I don't remember any reference to using gloves when shooting. There may have been one but I really can't say. When I shoot, I use the elbow tucked into my side position but if I am shooting a flintlock, I will wear a glove on my left hand because in that position, your left hand comes pretty darned close to the pan and if you are not awfully careful, you can get a painful hole burned into your finger that is next to the pan. I know and I have the tattooed finger to prove it. Once was enough and I now wear a simple leather work glove on my left hand......just in case my hand slips too far back while I am concentrating on the target. There is a serious jet of fire that comes out of the touch hole and it is carrying a bunch of burned powder with it. The soot and burned powder is what will give you the distinctive tattoo on your finger.

If the match that you want to shoot in will not allow the wearing of any glove when shooting, you can avoid the tattooed finger by turning your hand so that your fingers are on the side away from the pan. It is a bit of an awkward position at first because you are not gripping the rifle with your supporting hand but resting the gun on the heel of your hand. It feels strange at first but you can learn how to do it and it will keep your fingers away from that jet of flame and debris that shoots out of the touch hole.

 

[Al Bently]

I don't think anyone (or very few) would use a glove or sling as a shooting aid back in the day due to the mindset of the time. Even if they knew how to do it they would choose not to because they would consider it to be "cheating".

I don't think it was widespread but it's logical to reason that soldiers did experiment with anything that might give them an edge. The hasty sling would have been a very logical development for some applications even back then.

"Cheating?" The US has never been good (thank God) at following "gentlemanly" war rules such as targeting officers or using shotguns in battle.

I'm sure sling types and different applications were born largely of innovations/adaptations from the field. They did not originate from some laboratory at the Springfield Armory, Lee- Enfield or some other such place.

As for gloves, I'm sure they were worn in many cases during the war by soldiers -- with or without slings.

 

[Al Bently]

I don't have a current copy of the NMLRA rules but they didn't used to allow the use of slings. Originally, they did not allow the shooter to rest his elbow on his side to steady himself when shooting but that rule was changed some years ago and now it is quite legal to assume a standing position with the elbow of your supporting arm tucked into your side. I don't remember any reference to using gloves when shooting. There may have been one but I really can't say. When I shoot, I use the elbow tucked into my side position but if I am shooting a flintlock, I will wear a glove on my left hand because in that position, your left hand comes pretty darned close to the pan and if you are not awfully careful, you can get a painful hole burned into your finger that is next to the pan. I know and I have the tattooed finger to prove it. Once was enough and I now wear a simple leather work glove on my left hand......just in case my hand slips too far back while I am concentrating on the target. There is a serious jet of fire that comes out of the touch hole and it is carrying a bunch of burned powder with it. The soot and burned powder is what will give you the distinctive tattoo on your finger.

If the match that you want to shoot in will not allow the wearing of any glove when shooting, you can avoid the tattooed finger by turning your hand so that your fingers are on the side away from the pan. It is a bit of an awkward position at first because you are not gripping the rifle with your supporting hand but resting the gun on the heel of your hand. It feels strange at first but you can learn how to do it and it will keep your fingers away from that jet of flame and debris that shoots out of the touch hole.

Thank you for your response -- for your willingness to help.

A PDF of the NMLRA may be found on-line. See posting #3 of this thread for details.

A reading of these rules suggests you are absolutely correct with regard to tucking one's elbow against their sides and the use of gloves which is not mentioned.

Slings however cannot be used as you note:

"Article 2360”“SLINGS”“Slings may not be used in any shooting position, unless so stated in the shoot program."

Reading through these rules it's stunning to note that that the NMLRA does allow one to wear USMC-inspired shooting coats. It also recommends but does not require eye and ear protection. That's amazing (and just plain stupid) to me in this day and age.

Thanks again.

 

[fleener]

You guys sure can get your underwear in a bunch. Make one wonder how you function in normal daily life.

The following is a picture of me using a sling and a glove and a wrist rest for shooting 1,000 yards in the 2009 world match.

Just cause you don't do it does not mean that it is cant or is not done.

Fleener

 

[longcruise]

All I did was suggest you widen the breadth of your observations. The "point?" Knowledge.

I don't need to google the topic, having researched revolutionary period arms as well as pre and post rev. The existence and use of slings is not new information to me nor to most other members of this board. Your question did not address the existence or usage of slings or straps back in the day. this statement

Rifle slings were certainly in use during the American Revolutionary War -- at least to shoulder muskets. While using a loop sling might not have come about for some time, I cannot help but think some original musketeers used their rifle's slings in a "hasty" manner.

was merely speculative assertion on your part. Se my previous post regarding reading comprehension.

You seem to ask for considerable information from this board. I realize that we often offer unsolicited information but hopefully it could at some point be found useful. We frequently run off the road on tangents. Sometimes those tangents prove interesting. Often they are just monotonous repetition. You have to sort it out for yourself. It is information that needs to be analyzed, compared and tested both physically and intellectually.

When the information you seek is not offered up exactly as you wish, there is no sense in bashing those who offer it.

 

[Al Bently]

You guys sure can get your underwear in a bunch. Make one wonder how you function in normal daily life.

The following is a picture of me using a sling and a glove and a wrist rest for shooting 1,000 yards in the 2009 world match.

Just cause you don't do it does not mean that it is cant or is not done.

Fleener

What "world match" is that? The NMLRA "wold match?" If it was the big NMLRA match in Friendship I would curious how your technique did not contravene NMLRA article "2360”“SLINGS”“Slings may not be used in any shooting position, unless so stated in the shoot program"? Do they actually give specific permission to use a sling in the prone position?

I suspect you must have been shooting some sort of "rest match" else you would have been contravening NMLRA article "2370”“ARTIFICIAL SUPPORT”“The use of artificial support is prohibited except in rest matches." The glove/mitt is a none-issue. I see no mention of either in the NMLRA rule book.

One thing you are indeed right about is "Just cause you don't do it does not mean that it (is) can(')t or is not done." All the stuff under discussion can physically be done -- I don't think anyone questions that, but not all is due to the rules -- regardless of what individual shooter might do outside of the rules.

 

[Al Bently]

I don't need to google the topic, having researched revolutionary period arms as well as pre and post rev. The existence and use of slings is not new information to me nor to most other members of this board. Your question did not address the existence or usage of slings or straps back in the day. this statement

So you don't wish to widen the breadth and deepen the depth of your knowledge on this subject? Why not? Because doing so might disprove one of your beliefs, perchance? That's on you.

was merely speculative assertion on your part. Se my previous post regarding reading comprehension.

Naw. It's called reasoning. The soldiers already had muskets/rifles. They already had slings. They were fighting for their lives and would have gladly embraced any advantage that would help them stay alive -- that's still true with today's soldiers.

The hasty sling is not a terribly difficult concept. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to reason that troopers would have used the slings in various ways, under various conditions to improve their grips on their firearms, whether or not the usage was "official" or not.

From there it logically follows that some would have noticed another benefit in addition to an improved grip -- a better stabilized firearm.

I'm certain that it was largely through years of field use and improvisation that slings (and other combat items) developed (and continue to develop) over time into what they are and how they are used today.

When the information you seek is not offered up exactly as you wish, there is no sense in bashing those who offer it.

Nope.

I asked a question (#1 in this thread.) The first response (#2) was non-value added -- someone just needed attention so I ignored it. The third posting (#3) did a superb job of answering my question (it also underscored the ridiculous nature of #2) and I thanked them in posting #4.

Posting #5 was similar to posting #2 -- it too was non-value added. However it also tried to disseminate incorrect information which I took exception to. I don't appreciate people trying to get over on me or on others just to salve their own egos and that fact bothers some.

 

[Auldgoat]

jmVho, but, wouldn't it be rather difficult to "charge bayonets", or parry bayonets, if your arm is tangled in your tackle? Just a thought....... Will

 

[Alden]

I also hope you're aware there are at least two other reasons that shooting mitts/gloves are worn on the forehand in addition to the single one you mentioned? Both would (or at least should) be fairly obvious to any user of the hasty or loop sling -- now and many, many years ago.

Anyone who knows they dampen pulse know they are to eliminate pain too. Third reason? Hmmm... Not gonna say grip are you? Like spraying rubber-cement on your mitten/forearm are you? I used to do that with my fingerless wool gloves and my Bess to keep that 17 MOA accuracy when I locked into prone.

:rotf:

 

[Alden]

You guys sure can get your underwear in a bunch. Make one wonder how you function in normal daily life.

The following is a picture of me using a sling and a glove and a wrist rest for shooting 1,000 yards in the 2009 world match.

Just cause you don't do it does not mean that it is cant or is not done.

Fleener

The only thing you're missing is a cement bench, a cable release trigger, a porter to fan you, and maybe a eunich feeding you grapes... Were you on (6') paper at that range?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Claude and the moderators must be on vacation? Or maybe they are just supplying enough rope?
At least we can laugh about grits hmm Alden?
:rotf:

 

[longcruise]

There are no "beliefs" involved. No articles of faith. Its not a religion!

Speculation on history is a fun pastime, but you steadfastly ignore the fact that you completely miscomprehended my post to which you first took issue!

"Nope."

The better part of your paragraph following pretty much illustrates the the veracity of that which you deny!

BTW, Fleener is one of a relatively small group of shooters worldwide who pursue the LRML discipline. You would do better to at least present your questions civilly if you yourself are interested in broadening your knowledge.

 

[coloradoclyde]

WORD :thumbsup:

 

[stinkyfeet]

I use a glove on my support hand on a few rifles because the way I hold the stock I have gotten flash burn from the lock before (flinters) while it may be frowned upon I like modern shooting glasses, but I side with safety over looking HC/PC

 

[coloradoclyde]

There is a big difference between what we do and use today and attempting to give it historical credence.