Veteran Arms opinions

[Columbus]

MLs or other guns are not proved. Never have been. That is to say the US doesn't have a proof house (that I know of) but are tested to proof standards.

Yes, I know that and it was exactly my point in this discussion.

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Gents,

Am attaching these photos for Rudyard. He metioned "Dane Guns" in post #30.
I will let him comment on these himself.
Best,
R.

 

[Rudyard]

Well good on you Pukka' Thank you . The photoes show the Nigerian 'Foo Foo' or 'Dane Gun" .The lock being made with the crudest tools in a lorry park in the Village of Ikorudu federal Nigeria . All screws being made by homemade taps & dies (approximated OMF, if some where BSA viz ' Outer Mongolian fine' &' Byzantium standard acme ') The rest of the gun is Shedua wood and scrap iron , The bands being butter tin or the two marked ones bearing' one cup' &' two cup ' from a sugar sifter .But pertain ant to this theme is the DOM barrel . The welded seem forming a slightly squewif ' ovate barrel' feature . This proved well able to stand a good proof loading .(Though getting complaints from the rabbits and it reqistered 1 point zero on the Ricthter scale).
The Amuletts to contain the magic charms were mearley a fall back addition. Wouldn't look right without them . Whilst I jest , other than my use of a threaded breech plug rather than the customary braized in ones . These were very typical of the guns made along this pestilent coast .in the 1960s where I frequently came across them . Their use primerally for harvesting 'Beef', for' Chop' Diuker Bush deer, porkupines, monkeys, anything edible. If mindful of fraudulent ' fake' ammulets or ones too worn to work .They held them with the left hand at the wrist while holding the butt against the extended arm like some extended pistol with the right more valuable arm. .loads being a course powder wadded with some fiberous vegitation and lead diced or similar pellets and the loads assessed by 'Finger' measure . IE if its rod sticks out three or more fingers this indicates the power of the desired effect . rods by the way being number 8 wire ( Famous Kiwi export item). Quite what a Rondesvous range officer might make of such a gun on the line is anyone's guess , But you cant denie 'ITS Primitive " ! . While lead might be the better choice I have seen the effects of using ball bearings and one rascal was reportedly fined for shooting an Elephant with a 6" nail.
Regards Rudyard

 

[toot]

thank you for the history lesson. we can allways count on you for the bizarre answers to bizarre questions. you are the go to guy.

 

[RAEDWALD]

In the spirit of history trivia.

The 'Dane' of the Dane Gun comes from the trade in muskets within the Danish Gold Coast colony until the colony was sold to the UK in 1850. The Danes having captured the Gold Coast colony from the Swedes in 1663. The modern Dane Guns perpetuate the Danish trade guns from improvised materials. Hence the brisk trade in Morris Minor steering columns in Nigeria and Ghana in the 1950 and 60s for example.

Not unlike the 20th century Moroccan snaphaunce locks which followed 17th century English and Dutch practices and their copy Spanish barrels. Personally I blame Charles II for swapping Calais for Tangiers.

I attach from Paul Christophersen

 

[Rudyard]

Raewalds dissertation is spot on as ever, Most of it news to me . But I only knew them called Dane guns, Foo Foo , Guns ,or 'Country guns' . From Paul Adamsons accounts even brer Jimmo of Ikarudu Lorry park fame mostly made percussion .But he did make some flintlocks and it was from Paul the real long term 'Old Coaster' that I bought the detached lock.
Morris minor steering columns where of course the better option having beautifully smooth bores but I had water pipe and that's why you had stronger' Mooti' (magic) charms in the attached ammulets . I know Herbert Edwards the flint knappers of Brandon sold flints to West Africa his house was called 'Lagos Palm' from one of the Palm line ships that traded into that region . And I saw flints for sale in Lagos markets in 1965 . There must be some Dane guns taken back by Peace Corps or CUSO the Canadian equivalent if you know any ask them. Thank you for the compliment Toot. Regards Rudyard

 

[RAEDWALD]

My error. Tangier became English when it came with his wife's dowry. Calais was sold to France with Dunkirk (or rather Calais with Dunkirk) for £400,000 which paid for the English army to continue to campaign for Portugal against Spain.

 

[toot]

I agree-spot on. thank you for the great history lesion! a gun that I have never heard of!

 

[mgibbs1964]

I have no reason to feel one way or the other , but it's worth noting that all the "failures " with Indian muskets are from Reenactors. Italian muskets have failed to. In short, some reenactors don't properly clean muskets and a cement like build up in the breech area eventually creates a choke point, blowing the barrel. An original musket will do the same.

If someone can post a link to an injury from an Indian musket failing under live fire it would be informative .

That said, I feel they're too expensive for what they are. $500 for a P53, some of the big flinters are almost $700???

If you want a low priced front stuffer you can find good, used T/C Renegades for $250, or a Zoli Zouave .

Or just pay a few hundred more for an Italian.

If something like an 1842 Springfield repro , that was safe and shootable, made in India and priced at $300 then you're gonna have a good entry level option. $650-700? No thanks , I'll just put that money down on a deposit for something cool like an 8 Bore October Country rifle.

Places like Loyalist and Veteran Arms test fire the pieces , I don't know if they're "proofed" or they just pop off a round ball with a 60 gr charge and call it good. Middlesex Village charges a pretty heavy fee for "Proofing" but he does offer it.

I bought a .69 1842 Springfield from them about 10 years ago with bayonet for 500. It has served me well through countless re-enactments. Has never failed, and at places like Gettysburg I will shoot 100 to 150 rounds. It has only failed to fire twice and that was because of damp conditions.

 

[Joseph Amos]

I have had several VA weapons for over 15 years. Used heavily. No problems. My 35/40 conversion looks like a museum piece. People think it's antique. Love it.

 

[08Desert Trapper]

So what company did you get it from?

I’m asking because the first brown best musket I got was from discriminating in general which is now access heritage

The Sear in the lock broke. I was at Lancaster‘s long rifles, annual rendezvous up there in wonderful Lancaster, Pennsylvania. The Gun doctor looked at it and said I don’t touch Indian guns get that out of my camp right now.

I went down to another fella. He helped me out and the gun worked fine just somebody random and camp.

Couple years later, I was gifted a veteran arms, English trade, gun ,62 caliber. I’ve had no problems with it. I’ve shot multiple deer one bear and just killed a crazy coyote trying to break into my chicken coop the other day.

"If all you want is a wall hanger or an occasional shooter with light loads, the guns they sell will work."

Ditto, except for the part about "...will work."

I have worked for months to get a $700 Baker replica lock to function, including having to fabricate a sear spring to replace the pot metal junk that broke soon after I got the gun (had to replace it with a small coil spring and J-B Weld). The lock was made in India with a hammer and a wood rasp, apparently, given its (in) tolerances and failure of the sear to engage the firing notch consistently. Asked for help and got no reply. Never did figure out what to do about the tight spot in the barrel about 6" down from the muzzle, very noticeable when loading a ball with a patch for the first time - fired the gun after loading this by using a long cord in case the constriction caused a problem. Never shot it again after that first time. Still can't get the lock to function and hold the dog back at full **** consistently.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’m asking because the first brown best musket I got was from discriminating in general which is now access heritage

The Sear in the lock broke. I was at Lancaster‘s long rifles, annual rendezvous up there in wonderful Lancaster, Pennsylvania. The Gun doctor looked at it and said I don’t touch Indian guns get that out of my camp right now.

I went down to another fella. He helped me out and the gun worked fine just somebody random and camp.

Couple years later, I was gifted a veteran arms, English trade, gun ,62 caliber. I’ve had no problems with it. I’ve shot multiple deer one bear and just killed a crazy coyote trying to break into my chicken coop the other day.

A lot of gunsmiths refuse to work on them, they can consume a lot of time and materials (bits, gas, chisels etc) and its hard to justify charging someone a fee for a gun that cost them less than 700 in most cases.

 

[Rudyard]

A lot of gunsmiths refuse to work on them, they can consume a lot of time and materials (bits, gas, chisels etc) and its hard to justify charging someone a fee for a gun that cost them less than 700 in most cases.

All this' India guns are rubbish' annoys me. Yes there cheap & cheerful but the poor sods that actually make them are usually quite capable but constrained by the middle men to work down to a price . I have' gone over'& ' worked up' heaps of them non failed proof at Birmingham proof house they where so popular they where all faced & good sparkers with case hardened locks. I've had customers chase after me to get them ! Of course they varied , if good ide engrave' Tower GR ' if so so they got 'Dublin Castle.' & if borderline they got' Rapp'a Forge' and maybe a' Liberty or Deth' on the side plate others had Nock, Egg , & Probin .My own reenactment musket was' got up' of a loose barrel an a broken stock & a lock that belonged to neither . I made it a sort of'' Colonels private purchase' & it served me years & sold on well. Sort of 'Cobblers kids is poorest shod'. Of course cack handed bods will P & moan but they are what they are and fill a clear need . Perfection comes at a price if you want the best go to Dave Person or me or a raft of capable makers, Ime out of touch now as to who's handy in the US or Canada I allways remember sitting in a Cawnpore workshop guiding my copies of locks with the man who turned the bellows looking a dead ringer for Charlie Chaplin all the team sat on the floor the hearth made of crushed bricks inside a old biscuit tin with the Tuere ? a bit of old pushbike the bellows or air producer a Buffalo NY old US made affair all fueled by charcoal .Marvelous really that such items could be forged up from the "Es Scrap".
Any welding had to be at night since the power supply was limited Ide like to see these haughty US" take it away types " produce anything better under the conditions . Three Cheers for Charlie & his mates ! I say
Rudyard's take of such arms

 

[FlinterNick]

All this' India guns are rubbish' annoys me. Yes there cheap & cheerful but the poor sods that actually make them are usually quite capable but constrained by the middle men to work down to a price . I have' gone over'& ' worked up' heaps of them non failed proof at Birmingham proof house they where so popular they where all faced & good sparkers with case hardened locks. I've had customers chase after me to get them ! Of course they varied , if good ide engrave' Tower GR ' if so so they got 'Dublin Castle.' & if borderline they got' Rapp'a Forge' and maybe a' Liberty or Deth' on the side plate others had Nock, Egg , & Probin .My own reenactment musket was' got up' of a loose barrel an a broken stock & a lock that belonged to neither . I made it a sort of'' Colonels private purchase' & it served me years & sold on well. Sort of 'Cobblers kids is poorest shod'. Of course cack handed bods will P & moan but they are what they are and fill a clear need . Perfection comes at a price if you want the best go to Dave Person or me or a raft of capable makers, Ime out of touch now as to who's handy in the US or Canada I allways remember sitting in a Cawnpore workshop guiding my copies of locks with the man who turned the bellows looking a dead ringer for Charlie Chaplin all the team sat on the floor the hearth made of crushed bricks inside a old biscuit tin with the Tuere ? a bit of old pushbike the bellows or air producer a Buffalo NY old US made affair all fueled by charcoal .Marvelous really that such items could be forged up from the "Es Scrap".
Any welding had to be at night since the power supply was limited Ide like to see these haughty US" take it away types " produce anything better under the conditions . Three Cheers for Charlie & his mates ! I say
Rudyard's take of such arms

Awesome, I’ll refer people to you if you don’t mind

 

[springfield art]

What do you think of the guns made by Veteran Arms are they good. The prices seem good just curious about people’s experience with them. http://veteranarms.com/ReproductionMuzzleloadersandFlintlocks/Muskets.html

I bought two or three several years ago. The guy's service is good. Check/call for his processing; I believe he said they get them in, stain them, do all sorts of QC before shipping. Middlesex Village has a statement on their site about their processing. They've been selling these guns for many years, there must be something said for their products. I think I got a German musket, a US 1795, maybe one other but it was a while ago and all are gone now. Never fired them live, but have no qualms about that, don't automatically be frightened by the screaming-meemies on line. These vendors will talk to you! It's not a big mystery!

 

[springfield art]

I have ordered a Northwest trade gun from Millitary Heritage and have no complaints. I don't mind it not being drilled for a flash hole I can do it and know it is drilled in the correct place. I trimmed down the stock and refinished it and also browned the steel. It weights less then my pedersoli tradegun. Shoots great. People complain that they cannot contact them by phone they are in the office early in the AM. then they go to the shipping Dept. I had to call at 6:00am NewMexico time and had no problem talking to them. My veteran arms FDC I had to do alot of lock tunning. The bore has a lot of tight spots in it, like a wash board. I like my Millitary Heritage trade gun alot better.

When I got the Trade bug, I almost ordered one from MH, but stumbled on a Curly Gostomsky one at a sale. It is apparent that specs and quality are issues with the India guns, but you get what you pay for and many muzzleloaders don't mind tinkering a bit.

 

[FlinterNick]

I bought two or three several years ago. The guy's service is good. Check/call for his processing; I believe he said they get them in, stain them, do all sorts of QC before shipping. Middlesex Village has a statement on their site about their processing. They've been selling these guns for many years, there must be something said for their products. I think I got a German musket, a US 1795, maybe one other but it was a while ago and all are gone now. Never fired them live, but have no qualms about that, don't automatically be frightened by the screaming-meemies on line. These vendors will talk to you! It's not a big mystery!

I’d buy from veteran before middlesex. The issue isn’t the guns it’s whether or not you’ll ever see it.

 

[springfield art]

The one or two times I talked on the phone with Charles, (I think his name is, it's been a while!) he was very helpful.

 

[Rudyard]

I’d buy from veteran before middlesex. The issue isn’t the guns it’s whether or not you’ll ever see it.

Loyalist arms in Canada are the only firm that I know & where always conscientious. No point sending guns to me in NZ shipping is a major Major hassle .
Rudyard

 

[08Desert Trapper]

Awesome, I’ll refer people to you if you don’t mind

The musket with a broke sear spring I traded for Osage, orange bow, and a nice Italian made Caplock Calvary pistol

I recently acquired well actually five years ago acquired a veteran arms, English trade gun that I’ve been trying to make it look more like a trade Gun my next project is to take a wood rasp and make the stock less clunky but I’m good mate hoist the beer for me and hopefully someday we can have you having warm beers watching a great match of soccer