Veteran Arms opinions

[FlinterNick]

I bought two or three several years ago. The guy's service is good. Check/call for his processing; I believe he said they get them in, stain them, do all sorts of QC before shipping. Middlesex Village has a statement on their site about their processing. They've been selling these guns for many years, there must be something said for their products. I think I got a German musket, a US 1795, maybe one other but it was a while ago and all are gone now. Never fired them live, but have no qualms about that, don't automatically be frightened by the screaming-meemies on line. These vendors will talk to you! It's not a big mystery!

I’m only one guy here, but I’ve had three complaints from people waiting on 5 or more years for a gun they ordered from Middlesex trading. He charges 50% up front for stock he doesn’t have on inventory, made to order items should not accrue more than 30 or 60 days as the transaction now moves from sale to loan, legally this is how this works. If something pays you for something you don’t have or can’t deliver within a reasonable or appropriate time frame, there is no contract between two parties the transaction is now a non-arm length transaction therefore is a deemed loan.

When people attempt to cancel the transaction, he requires a 50% fine, meanwhile goods were never delivered, no follow ups were made and no estimated closing dates were provided.

This is just bad business practices.

One fella contacted me about replacing a baker rifle lock he sent back to Middlesex to repair, that was 5 years ago too.

Bear in mind none of this has anything to do with the guns being made in India, it’s just bad business.

Go to Veteran Arms or Loyalist, they’re good business people.

Here is the BBB profile of negative customer reviews.

https://www.bbb.org/us/nh/charlesto...age-trading-co-0051-92037462/customer-reviews

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Well there is the myth that all of the guns from India come from the same back alley shop in the same town and were never made to be fired, made by the same half dozen guys, and made with unmarked barrels. ALL of Which I've found isn't true. I've had great success with Loyalist Arms LLP Besses, Artillery Carbines, and Tradeguns. Shoot them live all the time. No worries. Haven't seen many of the Veteran Arms guns. Seen a lot of the MVTC guns, and with them the caveate is to hand pick yours from the seller at a show.

LD

There have been Horror Stories about Middlesex on here....

 

[Loyalist Dave]

There have been Horror Stories about Middlesex on here....

Ah but aren't most of those horror stories about the American guy that runs that business and not so much the muskets?

LD

 

[springfield art]

I’m only one guy here, but I’ve had three complaints from people waiting on 5 or more years for a gun they ordered from Middlesex trading. He charges 50% up front for stock he doesn’t have on inventory, made to order items should not accrue more than 30 or 60 days as the transaction now moves from sale to loan, legally this is how this works. If something pays you for something you don’t have or can’t deliver within a reasonable or appropriate time frame, there is no contract between two parties the transaction is now a non-arm length transaction therefore is a deemed loan.

When people attempt to cancel the transaction, he requires a 50% fine, meanwhile goods were never delivered, no follow ups were made and no estimated closing dates were provided.

This is just bad business practices.

One fella contacted me about replacing a baker rifle lock he sent back to Middlesex to repair, that was 5 years ago too.

Bear in mind none of this has anything to do with the guns being made in India, it’s just bad business.

Go to Veteran Arms or Loyalist, they’re good business people.

Here is the BBB profile of negative customer reviews.

https://www.bbb.org/us/nh/charlesto...age-trading-co-0051-92037462/customer-reviews

Interesting! BTW, I saw a Baker (India) for sale in Dec. at a military/re-enactor swap meet that's held twice a year, Dec. & July. Don't recall the price or anything, but it was a typical India gun. Thanks for posting your helpful warnings! And, really, 5 years is way too long to wait for something.

 

[FlinterNick]

Interesting! BTW, I saw a Baker (India) for sale in Dec. at a military/re-enactor swap meet that's held twice a year, Dec. & July. Don't recall the price or anything, but it was a typical India gun. Thanks for posting your helpful warnings! And, really, 5 years is way too long to wait for something.

The owner should be held accountable to the people he took money from.

 

[08Desert Trapper]

"If all you want is a wall hanger or an occasional shooter with light loads, the guns they sell will work."

Ditto, except for the part about "...will work."

I have worked for months to get a $700 Baker replica lock to function, including having to fabricate a sear spring to replace the pot metal junk that broke soon after I got the gun (had to replace it with a small coil spring and J-B Weld). The lock was made in India with a hammer and a wood rasp, apparently, given its (in) tolerances and failure of the sear to engage the firing notch consistently. Asked for help and got no reply. Never did figure out what to do about the tight spot in the barrel about 6" down from the muzzle, very noticeable when loading a ball with a patch for the first time - fired the gun after loading this by using a long cord in case the constriction caused a problem. Never shot it again after that first time. Still can't get the lock to function and hold the dog back at full cock consistently.

Just curious, what company you buy it from?

My first Indian musket was second pattern long land musket, purchased from military heritage, which is now access heritage

Had no problems shooting it did what you did to the triple load and two balls had a gunsmith with me. Everything was good.

That was the year 2008 everyone at rifles said that’s probably a wall hanger but be careful

The only problem I had with it is in my inexperienced gunsmith way. I use the wrong tool and broke a sear spring in the middle of field, stripping my gun.

Tried to get the” Gun doctor “to fix it. He’s a great guy from Lancaster PA. He told me I don’t want those effing Indian guns anywhere near me.
That was at Fort Frederick trade fare a couple lads down from him. Had some blankets out they said hey buddy we can help you we use them too and we’ve broken our sear springs because we’re using probably a pair of pliers or some mini vice grips. yes I’m not a gunsmith, just a tired, old sergeant, trying to fix my gun and have some fun in between Deployments

I ended up trading that gun after fixing it, my buddy use it for squirrel hunting some rabbit hunting and deer hunting and that 75 cow ball at the right distance at the right place. The deer just fell down. He did not run at all.

Next time I was home I got a veteran arms, English trade, gun, and 62 caliber is a wonderful shooter fired it right out of the box. The Flint that came with it wasn’t great but I have my own flints. I’ve huntef a dear Bear and plan to moose hunt with it sometime in the next two years.

I go to Rendezvous at least four times a year, and I do reenactments as a colonial ranger. This gun gets fired a lot being a Navy kid, and a retired marine sergeant. I clean my guns, like a vandal.

I’m not sure what guns people got from what vendor and I know they all come in from India, but knowing some Indians, and knowing how they work if they’re giving the right tools, they produce quality stuff just my thoughts. God bless you all God keep you all if you see me down the trail, my coffee is good my jerky taste awful

 

[horsecavalryman]

Can you tell me how guns in the US are proofed, any muzzleloader made here?

 

[horsecavalryman]

Just to add gas to the Flame tell me an American barrel Manufacturer who proofs their barrels for Muzzleloaders. Cholerain or Rice or who ever. You all Know Doc White of Utah,Green River Rifle works fame. One of his favorite custom builds is Baker rifles from The Rifle Shoppe. I had a n Indian Mfg. (MSVT) baker with spare rifled cholerain bll. to fit it. He took Indian smoothbore and repaired the breeching. tuned lock and pared the wood. installed a muzzle choke and took to Kansas after wild turkeys. He got one with that 20ga. 30" choked bll. that christmas I got him a sword bayonet for the Baker. AS a Joke I said it was for When they Kamakazied out of yer powder smoke. HE just told me that it had happened to him. DOC is gone but his Legend lives on!

 

[FlinterNick]

Just to add gas to the Flame tell me an American barrel Manufacturer who proofs their barrels for Muzzleloaders. Cholerain or Rice or who ever. You all Know Doc White of Utah,Green River Rifle works fame. One of his favorite custom builds is Baker rifles from The Rifle Shoppe. I had a n Indian Mfg. (MSVT) baker with spare rifled cholerain bll. to fit it. He took Indian smoothbore and repaired the breeching. tuned lock and pared the wood. installed a muzzle choke and took to Kansas after wild turkeys. He got one with that 20ga. 30" choked bll. that christmas I got him a sword bayonet for the Baker. AS a Joke I said it was for When they Kamakazied out of yer powder smoke. HE just told me that it had happened to him. DOC is gone but his Legend lives on!

Well one reason why they don’t proof them is because there are no US laws that require it ,but i think you know that already.

Another reason is that most of all US made black powder barrels are not used on CNC made kit guns or production guns, and proofing would require drilling a touch hole which would be an issue for most of their builders.

But you don’t hear often of US made gun barrels exploding in any European proof test or reinactment. All you can really find are the fellas online that enjoy testing the limitations of a black powder gun on YouTube.

 

[springfield art]

Just curious, what company you buy it from?

My first Indian musket was second pattern long land musket, purchased from military heritage, which is now access heritage

Had no problems shooting it did what you did to the triple load and two balls had a gunsmith with me. Everything was good.

That was the year 2008 everyone at rifles said that’s probably a wall hanger but be careful

The only problem I had with it is in my inexperienced gunsmith way. I use the wrong tool and broke a sear spring in the middle of field, stripping my gun.

Tried to get the” Gun doctor “to fix it. He’s a great guy from Lancaster PA. He told me I don’t want those -deleted- Indian guns anywhere near me.
That was at Fort Frederick trade fare a couple lads down from him. Had some blankets out they said hey buddy we can help you we use them too and we’ve broken our sear springs because we’re using probably a pair of pliers or some mini vice grips. yes I’m not a gunsmith, just a tired, old sergeant, trying to fix my gun and have some fun in between Deployments

I ended up trading that gun after fixing it, my buddy use it for squirrel hunting some rabbit hunting and deer hunting and that 75 cow ball at the right distance at the right place. The deer just fell down. He did not run at all.

Next time I was home I got a veteran arms, English trade, gun, and 62 caliber is a wonderful shooter fired it right out of the box. The Flint that came with it wasn’t great but I have my own flints. I’ve huntef a dear Bear and plan to moose hunt with it sometime in the next two years.

I go to Rendezvous at least four times a year, and I do reenactments as a colonial ranger. This gun gets fired a lot being a Navy kid, and a retired marine sergeant. I clean my guns, like a vandal.

I’m not sure what guns people got from what vendor and I know they all come in from India, but knowing some Indians, and knowing how they work if they’re giving the right tools, they produce quality stuff just my thoughts. God bless you all God keep you all if you see me down the trail, my coffee is good my jerky taste awful

Thanks for your comments!

 

[springfield art]

You'd have to have people cleaning them afterwards. Not much of a career move!

 

[Rudyard]

Well one reason why they don’t proof them is because there are no US laws that require it ,but i think you know that already.

Another reason is that most of all US made black powder barrels are not used on CNC made kit guns or production guns, and proofing would require drilling a touch hole which would be an issue for most of their builders.

But you don’t hear often of US made gun barrels exploding in any European proof test or reinactment. All you can really find are the fellas online that enjoy testing the limitations of a black powder gun on YouTube.

Very interesting and very well written . New guns in countries where provisional proof is done used a plug threaded into the unfinished barrel or barrels its called a 'Hutt & got the' Provisional proof mark 'I think its mostly used on shotgun barrels .All service rifles made in war time pressures where batch tested . But such later sold as surplus did get Proofed at least the Birmingham Proof House considered them unproofed . So most all would be later proofed at least the ones sold in the UK.. Such as Australia NZ and elsewhere No saying but generally the case & stood just fine .
Regards Rudyard