Vinegar

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Did you read the article? The studies were only concerning duodenal cysts. Even a 1 to 15 dilution killed 19% of cysts after 60 minutes. There was no report beyond that 60 minutes. 4 oz of vinegar to a at of water is double the concentration tested. Nor is anything reported concerning bacteria or protozoa. We still don't know if it kill bacteria or ameba in that concentration. You are quick to read neglible into a test where weaker solutions killed 20 percent in one hour. How many are killed in two hours or with a double strength solution obviously more than 20%.
 
Giardia is a protozoan and the cysts they were referring to were Giardia cysts. They also discussed bacteria (Salmonella, Yersinia enterocolitica strains (Y. enterocolitica W1024 O:9 [strain A] and Y. enterocolitica B1 O:5 Lis Xz [strain B]), S. aureus and E. coli)

Killing 20% of pathogenic bacteria is insignificant when the remaining 80% STILL CAUSES INFECTION AND DISEASE.

They found minimal to negligible effects on bacteria & protozoa in liquids. Works well on surfaces.
 
I'd boil my water...

Just as switchel makes a great summertime drink in hot weather.....I suspect some vinegar in your canteen would have a similar affect.
 
colorado clyde said:
I'd boil my water...
Click to expand...
My personal choice is a 3-stage filter.

That is why beer & small-beer were so popular in the 18th century. Boiling the water for brewing killed water-borne pathogens, the malt/hops killed the crappy flavor and hops have a mild bacteriostatic activity.
 
As the Germ Theory of Disease didn't really come into play until the 19th century, they had little idea why people got sick. At best, anecdotal evidence to work with at the time.
 
VERY TRUE.

The Chief of Surgery at St Bartholomew Hospital (according to numerous historical sources) in London, England was still operating in a Morning Coat in 1870 & reportedly with a white linen table napkin tucked into his front (like an apron) to protect his clothing from blood.
Further, according to the same sources, he was going straight from the operating suite to his teaching rounds & "seeing patients", after simply rinsing his hands in warm water & drying them with a fresh towel.

"Germ Theory" was so ill-understood during TWBTS that the Union military hospitals used natural sea sponges to sop up blood "in the wards" & rinsed the blood from the sponges with cool water before using the sponge on the next patient's wounds.
As a result Union wounded died of infection at a much higher rate than CSA wounded. = The CSA hospitals used clean cotton waste, as they had no sponges & threw the cotton away after each patient.
(The CSA doctors/nursing staff was no more medically advanced than their Unionist counterparts; instead handfuls of raw cotton was simply too cheap to rinse & reuse.)

yours, satx
 
https://johannfactotum.blogspot.com/2013/03/18th-century-military-rations-and-lack.html

Connecticutt-

"The Order and Direction from the General Assembly of the Colony of CONNECTICUT to their Commissary, for issuing Provisions to the Troops by them raised for the defence of their rights and privileges. ”” MAY, 1775. Three-quarters of a pound of Pork, or one pound of Beef, per diem; Fish three times per week. One pound of Bread or Flour per diem. Three pints of Beer per diem, or Spruce sufficient, and nine gallons of Molasses to a Company per week. Half a pint of Rice, or one pint of Meal; six ounces of Butter; three pints of Peas, or Beans, per week. One pint of Milk per diem. Three pounds of Candles to a Company per week. Twenty-four pounds of Soap, or four Shillings' worth, to a Company per week. Vinegar, two gallons per Company per week. Chocolate, six pounds per Company per week. Sugar, three pounds per Company per week. One gill of Rum per man, on fatigue days only. Provision made for the Hospital at discretion of the Physicians and Surgeons. The Rations will cost ”” when Pork is issued, eleven pence per diem; when fresh Beef, ten pence."[2]

Massachussetts-

"In Provincial Congress, Watertown, June 10, 1775. Resolved, That each Soldier in the Massachusetts Army shall have the following allowance per day, viz:
Article 1. One pound of Bread.
Article 2. Half a pound of Beef, and half a pound of Pork, and if Pork cannot be had, one pound and a quarter of Beef; and one day in seven, they shall have one pound and one-quarter of salt Fish, instead of one day' s allowance of meat.
Article 3. One pint of Milk, or, if Milk cannot be had, one gill of Rice.
Article 4. One quart of good spruce or malt Beer.
Article 5. One gill of Peas, or Beans, or other sauce equivalent.
Article 6. Six ounces of good Butter per week.
Article 7. One pound of good common Soap for six men per week.
Article 8. Half a pint of Vinegar per week per man, if it can be had".[3]


Finally, the Congressional Continental Ration:

"1 lb. of beef, or ¾ lb. pork, or 1 lb. salt fish, per day.
1 lb. of bread or flour per day.
3 pints of pease, or beans per week, or vegitables equivalent, at one dollar per bushel for pease or beans.
1 pint of milk per man per day, or at the rate of 1/72 of a dollar.
1 half pint of Rice, or 1 pint of indian meal per man per week.
1 quart of spruce beer or cyder per man per day, or nine gallons of Molasses per company of 100 men per week.
3 lb. candles to 100 Men per week for guards.
24 lb. of soft or 8 lb. of hard soap for 100 men per week."[4]
So, the private soldier's individual daily ration, according to the U.S. Army quartermaster's Museum, amounted to: 16 oz. beef, 6.8 oz. peas, 18 oz. flour, 1.4 oz. rice/meal, 16 oz. milk, .1830 oz. Soap, 1 qt. spruce beer and .0686 oz. candle, providing him (albeit theoretically) "...more calories, twice as much protein, an adequate supply of all minerals and vitamins with the exception of vitamins A and C, " than the diet of the WWII infantryman. [5]
 
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Thanks....
There is one aspect of the vinegar/bactericide debate that we overlooked.....Vinegar today is standardized to 4.5-5% acidity.....but vinegar back then could have been as high as 20%.... :hmm:
 
The 20% is likely due to distillation, rather than natural fermentation. Distilled is then diluted to the desired concentration.
 
Most commercial vinegar solutions available to consumers for household use do not exceed 5%. Solutions above 10% require careful handling, as they are corrosive and damaging to the skin.[48] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#Beverage


Concentration
by weight Molarity Classification
10”“25% 1.67”“4.16 mol/L Irritant (Xi)
25”“90% 4.16”“14.99 mol/L Corrosive (C)
>90% >14.99 mol/L Corrosive (C) Flammable (F)

Solutions at more than 25% acetic acid are handled in a fume hood because of the pungent, corrosive vapour. Dilute acetic acid, in the form of vinegar, is practically harmless. However, ingestion of stronger solutions is dangerous to human and animal life. It can cause severe damage to the digestive system, and a potentially lethal change in the acidity of the blood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid
 
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Yes, I'm aware of Pasteur & Lister's FINE work on what was then "the frontier of science". = Their work was discounted, NOT believed or simply ignored by many doctors/medical practicioners

The numerous sources for my comments are listed in the bibliography of CENTURY OF THE SURGEON by Jurgen Thorwald, M.D. & PhD.

While Dr. Thorwald's best-selling book is "lightly fictionalized", (Some names & dates are changed to "protect the feelings" of persons, who were still living when he wrote the book,) the bibliography is extensive, NON-FICTION & authoritative.
(That's the only "fictionalized book" that I know of that is "footnoted", & with such a bibliography.)

yours, satx
 
Easy enough to write it down, but the troops frequently saw little or none of it.

On December 18th, 1777, the troops observed a Day of Thanksgiving declared by Congress for the victory in October at Saratoga.

Joseph Plumb Martin described their Thanksgiving feast: "We had nothing to eat for two or three days previous except what the trees of the forests and fields afforded us, but we must now have what Congress said, a sumptuous Thanksgiving to close the year of high living. . . . it gave each man half a gill (about half a cup) of rice and a table spoon of vinegar!"

There are no other mentions of vinegar in his narrative except as related to this incident.

Would that vinegar be a condiment for the rice or a separate entrée, do you think?

Spence
 
Black hand, the study used a weaker solution of vinegar water. It probably used only a modern standardized strength vinegar. It only studied one hour. If it did not duplicate the conditions we are referring to in the 18th century. Your reliance on it as conclusive proof of anything is misplaced.

Until somebody takes a quart of pond water and adds vinegar of a strength likely to have been available and measures the pathogens after an hour, two hours etc, I suppose we won't know. The acidity of natural apple cider today is about 3.5 PH. We don't know what PH may have been back in the day, with different varieties of apples. Whether folks knew about pathogens is also irrelevant. Even back then there were practices said to preserve health from disease, whether scientifically valid, may be another story. We laugh about some of their health beliefs today, and also observe that some of those have been validated in tests.
 

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