Vintage H&A underhammer

The other day I took my new-to-me H&A underhammer to the range, mainly just to run a few rounds through the barrel and get a rough idea of how it shot.
The first discovery was that it seems to have suffered from some dry firing. It was very difficult to put the caps on. No biggie overall, although I need to buy a nipple wrench.
Cleaning it was a little bit of a challenge due to water from the patches wanting to run into the action. A quick look at TOW’s website showed neat little devices called flush nipples. (Before, I’ve always just stuck aquarium tubing on the existing nipple.) In the course of looking at the flush nipples I got my second surprise. If I understand it right, the nipples for the rifle are not the standard ¼ -28, but ¼ -32. This amazes me given the vintage of the rifle.
So, for all of you who still have one of these little gems”¦
Am I right about the nipple size, and is there anything else special about the nipples (like length) that I need to know?
A week from today I'll be at the world's greatest muzzleloading shopping mall. I'm gonna have to have a list.
For what it’s worth, the old catalogs show the model I have with a hooded front sight, but mine has a silver blade. Knowing the former owner, I think it likely that the original sight got installed on another rifle somewhere along the line. This is a rifle that I will have no trouble doing minor alterations to. It’s getting another hooded front sight with inserts and probably a rear peep sight. It shows promise of being a great little front-stuffing varmint rifle.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Randy, you and a dandy rifle there. There were several iterations of those rifles. Front sights do not have to be hooded/shaded but that is your option.
Yes, they use a different nipple. Why H&A made them that way is a guess. Contact TOW and ask for some proper nipples, they will fix you up.
A friend nearly shot a nipple into his arm with a wrong size in it.
There were flash cups made for those, I gave my last one to my friend. The flash coming down on yer arm is not a big deal. Just don't wear your best shirt while shooting.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Holding a H & A Underhammer requires a different approach than other rifles.
Typically with most other rifles ( while standing ) your arm holding the forestock would be directly under the barrel, while with a underhammer style your arm should be held to the side of the rifle to prevent getting burned or injured with the cap. It takes practice!
Also a flash cup does help a lot.
You can make these easily with an old 30-06 caseing.
I just luv those H&A underhammer guns!
Fred

 

[hawkeye2]

Not only are the nipples a different thread they have different lengths for the various calibers because of the changing wall thickness. Check pages 3 & 4 of Track of The Wolf's nipple listing. They also have flash cups in the same area.

 

Thanks for the replies.
These rifles were reasonably commonplace at matches the first several years I was in the game, but, except for chunk matches, I haven’t seen one on the line in many years. All the older guys who shot them are gone, and now I am one of the older guys. There wasn’t anyone left around here to ask.
Mine has a flash cup so that problem is taken care of. I hadn’t even thought about barrel wall thickness playing a part in getting the right nipple so I’m REALLY glad for that info.
I’ll probably try to find what I need on commercial row next week before going to TOW. Nothing against them, I’ve done a lot of business with them in the last several months. It’s just that”¦well, I’ll be at Friendship, what I need will most likely be at Friendship, and people who have been playing the game forever, in case I have any last second doubts about what I’m getting, will be at Friendship.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Happy to hear that you are going to Friendship, wish I could go .
Just a little tip.
Make a shopping list before you go.
You won't regret it!
How do I know that valuable information????
All the best!
Fred

 

Happy to hear that you are going to Friendship, wish I could go .
Just a little tip.
Make a shopping list before you go.
You won't regret it!
How do I know that valuable information????
All the best!
Fred

I'm one of the fortunate few who can get up in the morning, drive down there, do everthing I need to do, a few things I just want to do, and still be home in time for supper.
I learned a long time ago that even with a list it's hard not to forget something. The list just holds down the percentage.

 

[F.G. Ford]

PLEASE enjoy your time!
Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

Happy to hear that you are going to Friendship, wish I could go .
Just a little tip.
Make a shopping list before you go.
You won't regret it!
How do I know that valuable information????
All the best!
Fred

I'm one of the fortunate few who can get up in the morning, drive down there, do everthing I need to do, a few things I just want to do, and still be home in time for supper.
I learned a long time ago that even with a list it's hard not to forget something. The list just holds down the percentage.

You don't need a list. Just bring lots of money and buy everything you see that you like. :grin:
Save enough for the divorce attorney when yer wife finds out. :shocked2:

 

[hanshi]

You mention water running into the action. I have an H&A underhammer and the barrel comes out by simply pushing out the large pin in the action. Then maybe I misunderstood. :idunno:

 

You mention water running into the action. I have an H&A underhammer and the barrel comes out by simply pushing out the large pin in the action. Then maybe I misunderstood. :idunno:

From the reading I've done there are/were several ways the barrels were attached. You have described one way. Mine appears to be retained with set screws. It seemed easiest to clean it like I do the guns with pinned barrels, which is to leave everything together.
I have one rifle I seldom shoot that has a hooked breech and wedge. That one gets the barrel removed because it's easy to do. Ditto for the old double when I had it. Otherwise the barrel and stock stay together.
For what it's worth you have made me wonder if I assumed too much. I just double-checked and there is no pin on mine, it's set screws.

 

[silverfox]

If it has set screws I would think it is one of the newer H & A models not the old ones. These were made to remove the barrel and replace it without problems. You may want to do that when cleaning it makes it a lot faster and without hassel. I have both and I always remove the barrel on the new one.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[gmww]

Yep. Pinned=old version
Set screws=newer version

 

Do you have any timeline for the change? I thought the rifle was one that had been around for a while but maybe it was a more recent gun show purchase. It IS marked Hopkins and Allen. I think there was an outfit not far from me in Indiana that was the last to market the full line, but I have no idea how their rifles were marked.

 

[gmww]

It would only be a guess. There are a number of members here that might know. I had a Pin underhammer converted as it is to interchange barrels with having to bang on a pin.

 

The first UH Hopkins & Allen that I owned was a Buggy Rifle and it was bought in 1969. All of the earlier tapered pin models had a fully rounded action and the much later models with the 3 set screw attachment had a flat on each side of the action. The stock also had the flats cut on the later model. All parts interchange between the early and later models, except the factory stock. I can't tell you when the 3 set screw system was started. I have taken some early models and drilled out the tapered hole, tapped the new hole and threaded cap bolts in, to ensure the barrel did not come loose. On those I also counter sunk the hole so the head of the cap bolt was flush with the side of the action. I have also replaced the tapered pin with a roll pin which secured the barrel tight to the action.
Mark

 

[gmww]

The one on the top was a conversion I had done by John Taylor. He drilled and tapped the holes and machined the sides at my request. The one on the bottom he custom built.

 

[Metalshaper]

I just made my own? :wink:

Internal mainspring, double set triggers, heat blued frame and horn nose cap.. Rust blue on all the other parts

 

[Rifleman1776]

I only recall the tapered pin on the ones I sold in the 1970's. Seemed like a good set up to me.
Hardest part of removing the butt stock was finding a screwdriver long enough. Found mine at a flea market.

 

[Greg Hardy]

I just picked one up yesterday from a pawn shop. 100 bucks. The stock is cracked pretty badly, but it's fixable. There's a bit of external rust and a very light amount of surface rust in the bore, but no pitting. .45 cal. Serial number in the 500's. It's missing the 'lollypop' peep sight. Nipple is a bit banged up, thanks for the info about TOW. I made a temporary peep sight. The hole is tapped 1/4x28.