W.M. Large

[shortstring]

It's not out of the question that the builder in the 60s used an antique lock. As I understand it they didn't have the options that we have now as far as parts.

 

[Tom Compton]

Agree that many builders in the 50s and 60s used original locks.

Have a light bench gun built by Judge Resley with an original Tower musket lock. He told me he made it in the mid 1950s. 1 3/8" round barrel .48 cal made by the Judge.
TC

 

[DelSnavely]

Well with all pertinent information in, it's official. With no other markings inside the face plate of this lock, this is an ORIGINAL "Michael M. Maslin" lock made before 1847. The barrel is an original 44" .45 cal. W.M. Large made in the 1950's-60's and from all information from all sources, this rifle was made before 1964.

I can't be prouder of this rifle. It is deffinately something I just "lucked" upon, and is almost unheard of for a "newbie" to own.

This rifle is my new deer rifle (The Buck Whacker) and has taken deer by the original owner. The first year he used it, he shot a deer and never shot it again. That had to be before 1964.

As the original makers of these parts and the maker of this rifle would want, it will be used and used well. Then when I am gone, it will be given to the youngest member of my family. Hopefully it will be passed down and used for many generations.

How lucky can a new muzzleloader shooter get than to own a rifle like this?

 

[shortstring]

This is the sort of thing that makes our little world tick. The old boy that inlet every piece & rasp the wood into shape looked at his creation much as you are doing now. Hopefully he's somewhere taking notice of all this. I'm with you,it's beautiful, it's art & I personally feel that he'll help guide the ball into a freezer full of meat!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Definitely is an original lock, Russ Hamm didn't put the Maslin name on his locks. The less said about CVA the better. Congratulations on a great find! :thumbsup:

 

[ohio ramrod]

Yea that is about right. I stepped off the distance tonight it was actually closer to 70 yrds. Nice gun, nice barrel and not to bad mini's.

 

[Dphar]

Well with the research I've done on the lock, it looks more like someone built a rifle around a W.M. Large barrel and an original Michael M. Maslin lock.

This is a pic of the markings on the lock itself. I've been told by a gun maker that even though these locks were reproduced by Russ Hamm, CVA and others, NONE of them reproduced the lettering on the outside of the lock like this. If that's the case then, this lock was produced by Michael M. Maslin himself between 1822-1847.

You tell me.

This rifle is getting better all the time!

Its *far* more likely that its a Russ Hamm "Maslin" since his were marked just like this. See any old advertisement in Muzzle Blasts.
I just looked. Could not read the flint version but the Russ Hamm percussion Maslin has this exact marking. Some other Hamm locks were marked Russ Hamm, like his Bedford.
This was what I remembered but have not had one in my hands since the late 1970s or so.
Take a good closeup picture of the INSIDE of the lock. Tumbler etc. Russ Hamm locks have a rounded sear nose if they are unmodified.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

From an April 1967 Muzzle Blasts Adertisment.

If the engraving on the cock matches this its a Russ Hamm copy an original would have had hand cut engraving and it would not be identical.
Photo in the ad was pretty dark...
Dan

 

[Dphar]

Ok, so now I'm even MORE confused...lol

If RonT has one Dated 1972, when did he STOP dating the barrels?

This is beginning to look like a useless endevor, when all of the information conflicts.

You might find ANYTHING stamped in a Bill Large barrel or not.
Maybe he felt like dating a barrel. Maybe who ever ordered it wanted it dated. Maybe the maker stamped a date on it.

Dan

 

[RonT]

In this case it appears that the 1972 was stamped by Bill Large as the barrel had not been mounted prior to my obtaining. Breeched, yes, signature on top flat, mounted, no.
As to alleged runout relative to the stamp....hafta' prove that to me by stats. This one doesn't show me that.
The "~3" high" is a sight problem (maybe, using Don's mini's)and of no concern to me at this point.
At a recent roundball match, offhand at ~35 yds., it was dead on...it was...I wasn't.. :haha:
This "just the facts, Mam" documantation is good for the sport and a great discussion point, maybe more variations will fall out....
R
Don, trying to send you a PM.

 

[Captjoel]

Bill Large was certainly a real "character" and a bit of a practical joker as well. A very good friend of mine who would order barrels from Bill by the gross, had one that was bored so far off center he couldn't use it. He took it to Frindship and gave it back to Bill. Bill raised the barrel up and looked through the muzzle end and said "yup, good one for bird hunting" That is all he had to say about that! My friend and several of the early contemporary builders he knew used to give Mr. Large a lot of harrassment about his signature stamps. They said he hammered em in to deep and it took most of a days work to file the darn signature off the barrels!! Could never get rid of that darn deep (.) period.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

My Russ Hamm flint lock has no marking on the exterior--just his name inside. The rifle it's on is dated 1973.

 

[Dphar]

My Russ Hamm flint lock has no marking on the exterior--just his name inside. The rifle it's on is dated 1973.

The P Gonter lock was unmarked, at least the one in the ads is and the one I used on a rifle about 1969 was, I have pics of the rifle. Might have been marked internally.
The Bedford in the ad is marked Russ Hamm.
The Maslin's, SFAIK, were all marked MM Maslin Warranted.
As I stated the internals are readily recognizable. They also all used virtually the same frizzen spring so far as I can tell.
Dean Mitton used the same Maslin flint photo in his ads after RH sold out but its not readable in his ad either. Just the "warranted" and hardly that.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

In this case it appears that the 1972 was stamped by Bill Large as the barrel had not been mounted prior to my obtaining. Breeched, yes, signature on top flat, mounted, no.
As to alleged runout relative to the stamp....hafta' prove that to me by stats. This one doesn't show me that.
The "~3" high" is a sight problem (maybe, using Don's mini's)and of no concern to me at this point.
At a recent roundball match, offhand at ~35 yds., it was dead on...it was...I wasn't.. :haha:
This "just the facts, Mam" documantation is good for the sport and a great discussion point, maybe more variations will fall out....
R
Don, trying to send you a PM.

Heh heh!
Along with his "normal" markings Bill Large used to "personalize" barrels too.
Might come with almost anything stamped on them that struck his fancy at the time.
John D. Baird had a barrel come in stamped with John "Dinglehoofer" Baird. Etc.

I had one stamped "Daniel "Wildfire" Phariss".
Of course I ordered a barrel for a flint Hawken and got a percussion..... This was circa 1972. Dumb me I sold it off rather than rebreeching, but I was tool and shop "challenged" at the time just back from the army and working on being a flight instructor.
Anyone who would figure out a way to positively figure out what was stamped when and why would would need a crystal ball.

Dan

 

[Cutfingers]

Good point as this might explain the mysterious "L" that some of us have stamped under the JJJJs.
What state and town did Bill Large work out of? Could either of them started with an "L"?
The mystery continues.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Ironton Ohio.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

My flintlock is clearly marked with Russ Hamm's name on the inside of the plate, but there isn't anything marked on the outside. The rifle was made in August of 1973 by C. or G. Bird. using a G. R. Douglas barrel.
Dan

 

[Cutfingers]

Thanks Mike. Guess that negates my theory about the "L".

 

[shortstring]

Another little oddity about getting a barrel from Large was that you may or may not get what you ordered from him. I've heard the story many times where some one would get ahold Bill & order a barrel, say a 1 1/4" .50, Bill might send them a 1 1/8" .45 saying that was what they really wanted.

Something that's always amused me about Large barrels is that if you look at 6 of his barrels you might see 5 different configurations of rifling. Wide grooves, narrow grooves, shallow or so gawd awful deep that they'd never shoot. Some of em were as smooth as silk inside, others felt like a mile of dirt road.

 

[Cutfingers]

Mine are .015 deep and smooth as a babies butt. Absolutely no shooting problems. Right where I aim, which unfortunatly, is not always where I intended. Benched it's dead on.