Want to purchase an Uberti 1851 Navy, but have some questions

[FluorideInMyWater]

If you want a smooth and reliable revolver then the gun is worth the price. If your goal is to shoot tin cans at 25 feet then you don't need any of the above. If you are an experienced handgun shooter you might not be satisfied with an out of the box Italian gun though. The 11 or any other degree crown is not worth it. I haven't found any problems with the factory crown on any revolvers.

i did a lot of reading on the "crown" debate. a crown of any degree will not consistanly fire the same gas pattern each shot, so each shot is different. the only question is, even though each shot is different, does your group tighten up at all with the crown than without it.....even just, say 20%? I'm not rich by any extent of the imagination, but i always like buy once and cry once, when making purchasing. so if i really get into it maybe i would consider competition, but if not, it would still be a great quality, tuned plstol.

he apparently only has the Taylor Uberti in stock. from my understanding, that is the "exact" same pistol and parts then the Uberti and the Cimmeron, except for a marking on the underside of the barrel. Is this correct?

 

[45D]

OK, so that begs the newbie question.....WHO IS GOON??? website? contact info?

Message sent.

Mike

 

[Joemolf]

i did a lot of reading on the "crown" debate. a crown of any degree will not consistanly fire the same gas pattern each shot, so each shot is different. the only question is, even though each shot is different, does your group tighten up at all with the crown than without it.....even just, say 20%? I'm not rich by any extent of the imagination, but i always like buy once and cry once, when making purchasing. so if i really get into it maybe i would consider competition, but if not, it would still be a great quality, tuned plstol.

he apparently only has the Taylor Uberti in stock. from my understanding, that is the "exact" same pistol and parts then the Uberti and the Cimmeron, except for a marking on the underside of the barrel. Is this correct?

Your talking me into buying one!

 

[Desperate Lee]

There are at least 10 things I care about before arbor fit.

Talk to me brother. What 10 things do you consider essential ahead of arbor fit? If i buy anything other than a Pietta, the first thing i correct is arbor length and wedge fit. I want the wedge thumb pressed in, not driven in.
DL

 

[hawkeye2]

so, does the gun come with a crown already? if they "square" and polish the crown, does that mean you have to re-crown? or is square just fine? i'm probably over complicating this.

The end of the barrel is machined off square period and that is the crown. It really doesn't need to be anything else.

 

[Desperate Lee]

The end of the barrel is machined off square period and that is the crown. It really doesn't need to be anything else.

That may be true, however i grew up shooting 38 special target loads. I have a barrel coneing and crown kit. I first square the crown, then put an 11 degree chamfer right down to slightly below the bore. Next i square the forcing cone and put another 11 degree cone chamfer to just slightly larger than the bullet diameter. I did this on all my S&W, Ruger, and Colt revolvers. I do it now on my most shot bp revolvers. Is accuracy better? Dont know, it is just something I do and I am satisfied. I am on the north side of 70 so my opinion is all that counts to me.
DL
Semper Fi
USMC vet forever

 

[hawkeye2]

Desperate Lee If that works for you great. I've done the same to some of my guns and all the C&B revolvers get the same forcing cone work as you do. It sounds like we have the same tools. I do appreciate a nicely finished crown for looks and protection but just haven't found it necessary on these revolvers so long as there is no damage or wear. We don't load from the muzzle so no problems with starting a ball, patch cutting, etc. and I always use a muzzle protector and just haven't had any problems there.

 

[Desperate Lee]

Yes sir if it works then all is good. When in my younger days when i would shoot several hundred rounds a session i could notice the difference my work makes. Now it is little more than tradition with me and i do all the same. There is no difference whether i shoot conical or ball, i do them all the same. When i built target rifles, the crown must be protected. So the habit is instilled with me. My friend, GOD rest his soul, Ed Shilen did several barrels for me on my hunting rifles. All had target crowns.
DL

 

[45D]

Talk to me brother. What 10 things do you consider essential ahead of arbor fit? If i buy anything other than a Pietta, the first thing i correct is arbor length and wedge fit. I want the wedge thumb pressed in, not driven in.
DL

I agree with you DL except for the "thumb pressure" thing. When I use even the "palm smack" method, my endshake for the Dragoons is around .004" but when I drive the wedge on in (as per Colts instructions) I get my .002" which is what they are set for. You must have an amazingly strong thumb!!

Mike

 

[45D]

As far as crowns and F.C. angles, I think crowns are a personal thing . . . if you think you need one, you need one. The F.C. is a little different, the rifling needs to meet the ball almost immediately for a ball shooter. The bearing surface on a ball is rather small and loosing surface contact when transitioning from chamber to barrel isn't the best setup. For a conical shooter, I'd think you might be OK with a not too long 11° cut. All mine shoot Conicals (he he ), are quite accurate and they retain the original F.C. .

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

My Walkers got sloppy in the barrel/frame fit really quick, because of sloppy Arbor fitting. It is important , almost necessary, for the big horse revolvers that use 50gr charges.

The average guy can get away with a .36 Navy using the wedge to absorb the recoil for the probably 100 rounds per year he'll shoot but the big guns are less forgiving of improper arbor fit.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

As far as crowns and F.C. angles, I think crowns are a personal thing . . . if you think you need one, you need one. The F.C. is a little different, the rifling needs to meet the ball almost immediately for a ball shooter. The bearing surface on a ball is rather small and loosing surface contact when transitioning from chamber to barrel isn't the best setup. For a conical shooter, I'd think you might be OK with a not too long 11° cut. All mine shoot Conicals (he he ), are quite accurate and they retain the original F.C. .

Mike

Mike. Can you tell me what brand and size canonical you use. Perhaps give me a link?
So, also in the great. 375 bs .380 diameter ball debate, where do you stand? Seems like casting your own would take.forever. i have not seen a mold that makes more than 2 rounds. Not thrilled about way increased lead gas exposure while melting and casting, even though you are still exposed when shiiting......just way less quantity.

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Your talking me into buying one!

Sorry Joe! Didnt mean to mess with your purse strings!

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

Talk to me brother. What 10 things do you consider essential ahead of arbor fit? If i buy anything other than a Pietta, the first thing i correct is arbor length and wedge fit. I want the wedge thumb pressed in, not driven in.
DL

Lee.
Does that mean you prefer pietta over Uberti? I was under the impression that it was an inferior build (from my online research.

Since your a veteran shooter, ill asl you the same ball question. .375 or .380 diameter? Do you cast yourself or buy. If you cast, what press do you use. If you.buy, what brand do you use?

 

[FluorideInMyWater]

so, i reread the longshoot descriptions of gunsmithing labor offer and involved, and it seems one of the .major issues is the imcorrect diameter in the cylinders. Why.doesnt Uberti correct this flaw? Ot was correct in the original colts i believe, but just leads to all these loading difficulties and gas pressure loss issues, amd and ultimately accuracy. Trying to compensate for the bad diameter seems to be hit and miss. When i got into this project i wanted a good quality functional shooter, but it seems that it takes a lot of exta work to accurize the flaws. If i pay $100 to rehone the cylinder to .380 (i think it's. 378) then that will solve so many functional issues and make the final product more enjoyable and hopefully addictive. I never like to half-arse things. Pay once cry once. Of i do the crown and the cylinder im looking at $845, for a super quality firearm, and i won't have any regrets. It makes loading super easy and increases accuracy. Important things, even though it's a black powder, reproduction. But im starting to think it is worth it to avoid the loading hassles.
The one thing they offer that im unsure about is a percussion cap safety guard that stops spent caps from falling into the action. Im not sure of this is the same as nipple-suck which you can fix by finely filling the trigger housing where it meets the hammer (i think l...watched a video) will that also stop caps from flying back during rapid fire? I have no experience with this so ill take your comments.
All in all,.you get what you pay for, and shelling out the extra cash now will alleviate a multitude of problems later.
IMO
Was i expecting to pay possibly over $900? No. But my customized glock 34 ran me $1600 with all the upgrades. Well worth it. I think.....
:O

 

[45D]

Mike. Can you tell me what brand and size canonical you use. Perhaps give me a link?
So, also in the great. 375 bs .380 diameter ball debate, where do you stand? Seems like casting your own would take.forever. i have not seen a mold that makes more than 2 rounds. Not thrilled about way increased lead gas exposure while melting and casting, even though you are still exposed when shiiting......just way less quantity.

Well FIMW, some folks here may have caught my "inside joke" but you're newer here so here's the deal. I can't shoot black powder in the county I live in so all my favorite revolvers are converted to "unmentionables". Therefore, I shoot Conicals by default! Lol!! 250 gr. .452"

Mike

 

[Whitworth]

Well FIMW, some folks here may have caught my "inside joke" but you're newer here so here's the deal. I can't shoot black powder in the county I live in so all my favorite revolvers are converted to "unmentionables". Therefore, I shoot Conicals by default! Lol!! 250 gr. .452"

Mike

Wow, no black powder in your county? Where might this be?

 

[Grenadier1758]

@FluorideInMyWater,

Once up a time, the Pietta revolvers were considered inferior to the Uberti revolvers. Pietta has since converted to a CNC machining process and their revolvers are much improved. I believe that Uberti has also upgraded to CNC machining, but the arbor length issue remains.

Uberti has the arbor length issue. For a revolver that is seldom shot, the short arbor is not really much of an issue, but there will be unnecessary wear on the wedge and frame. The arbor length should be corrected. The revolvers made for Taylors are built to their specification and finish level requirements. They are different from regular production Uberti revolvers. You see it in the level of finish, perhaps not on the internal components.

A revolver sent to be Goonerized (@45D) will get the correct fitting arbor and for full treatment of the chambers to the bore diameter if requested. I would believe that 45d's conversation should have covered all of that. Lots of folks here on the Forum have had revolvers Goonerized and had good results. Perhaps you won't be crying so hard from Mike's procedures.

 

[hawkeye2]

"If i pay $100 to rehone the cylinder to .380 (i think it's. 378) then that will solve so many functional issues"

First if you want to shoot a .380" ball they will move forward under recoil and lock the gun up in a .380" cylinder. The cylinder needs to be slightly smaller than the ball. Second, I have never paid more than $35 to have the chambers in a cylinder honed to my specs. If you change the ball size you will also want to rework the forcing cone.

If you spent $1600 for an upgraded Glock you probably won't be satisfied with an unmodified Italian revolver. I would suggest that no matter which brand, new or used, you get send it to Goons to be reworked. It's money well spent.

 

[45D]

Wow, no black powder in your county? Where might this be?

Well, you can't shoot anywhere outside in my county because it is too populated so that means smokeless as well as bp. Of course we have indoor ranges but they don't allow bp so it's smokeless only. So, my "favorite" revolvers have conversions in them (all .45's. I'm not into the .38 spl / barrel lining voo doo stuff).
I could drive to a neighboring county but don't have that kind of time just to shoot bp, so smokeless it is !!! Lol

Mike