I've seen various people post different water temps they use when cleaning their muzzleloader, anywhere from cold to scalding. Is there a consensus or is this one of topics like Indian muskets I don't want to mention for fear of starting a war? I was taught boiling water and it seems to work on mine just fine but was looking for pros and cons of different temps.
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Water temp for cleaning
- Thread starter palladius
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I like to use water at room temperature.
Less chance of getting burns on my hands/arms, less likely to cause "flash rusting", less chance of it damaging the finish on the stock if I haven't removed the barrel before cleaning and it doesn't cook the grass when I dump out the bucket on the lawn.
Less chance of getting burns on my hands/arms, less likely to cause "flash rusting", less chance of it damaging the finish on the stock if I haven't removed the barrel before cleaning and it doesn't cook the grass when I dump out the bucket on the lawn.
woodse guy
40 Cal.
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I like it to be about the temp of baby bath water.
I never really paid much attention to the water temp. just turn on the tap and fill the can. I think I've used the hot spigot once or twice but I never let it heat up..
I had never heard of flash rust before this, had to google it. How does hot water cause it compared to other temperatures? (the definitions I looked up didn't mention that and with dialup it would take too long to look up other pages)
It's really can be a regional and/or seasonal issue related to relative humidity or moisture available in the air.
We all know water will condense at the right temp aka; The Dew point.
If conditions are right, the metal barrel made "hot" from a hot water cleaning process will pass through the dew point as it cools. The outside of the barrel is exposed to the atmosphere and any small amount of moisture occurring will quickly evaporate. But the semi enclosed area of the bore may hold moisture just long enough to begin a rust process.
This all happens on the microscopic level and rust may be so light as to only just present itself as coloration on a clean patch.
Usually flash rust isn't a big deal, it can be wiped out within minutes or hours with a patch then the bore treated with a rust preventive oil.
(guy's have all manner of oil they use as a personal preference)
Experience plays in a lot here as we all live in various parts of the world and conditions vary.
I've learned here in Minn to check rifles the next day,,8-24hrs after cleaning to be sure the bore is clean and free of rust.
When I began using room temp/baby bath temp water for cleaning vrs hot water, my flash rust occurrences diminished greatly.
I still keep an eye on'm though.
Along side my gun locker is an oil rag and rods with jags as well as oil and patches.
My investments are handled and checked (cared for) on a regular basis.
We all know water will condense at the right temp aka; The Dew point.
If conditions are right, the metal barrel made "hot" from a hot water cleaning process will pass through the dew point as it cools. The outside of the barrel is exposed to the atmosphere and any small amount of moisture occurring will quickly evaporate. But the semi enclosed area of the bore may hold moisture just long enough to begin a rust process.
This all happens on the microscopic level and rust may be so light as to only just present itself as coloration on a clean patch.
Usually flash rust isn't a big deal, it can be wiped out within minutes or hours with a patch then the bore treated with a rust preventive oil.
(guy's have all manner of oil they use as a personal preference)
Experience plays in a lot here as we all live in various parts of the world and conditions vary.
I've learned here in Minn to check rifles the next day,,8-24hrs after cleaning to be sure the bore is clean and free of rust.
When I began using room temp/baby bath temp water for cleaning vrs hot water, my flash rust occurrences diminished greatly.
I still keep an eye on'm though.
Along side my gun locker is an oil rag and rods with jags as well as oil and patches.
My investments are handled and checked (cared for) on a regular basis.
I never had the flash rust, and have used boiling water. Most of the time I get it to a temp thats uncomfortable to keep a finger in but not so hot to scold.
Not important although many like warm to hot.
Soaps are not really needed but most use some kind of soap. Currently, I am using cold water and Murphy's oil soap. Rifles ain't complained.
Soaps are not really needed but most use some kind of soap. Currently, I am using cold water and Murphy's oil soap. Rifles ain't complained.
Snakebite
45 Cal.
I've always used hot water, I'll throw a pot of water on the stove and by the time I've cleaned the rest of my rifle it's ready for the barrel. Sometime boiling, sometimes just very hot. That's always worked for me. I tried cold tap water one time and for me, it didn't work nearly as well. I will tell you that now I do clean my rifle pretty well with Black Solve at the range and I think that helps. When I have gotten a little flash rust, an oily patch takes care of it. Sometimes I will go back the next day with an oil patch again just in case, but it's never been a necessity.
I'm curious as to which is the greater concern: "flash-rust" when using hot water, or incomplete drying when using cold water resulting in "normal" rust (?)
I've never seen flash rust, never even heard of it before finding this forum, and I have always used hot soapy water. Cold water may work just as well, but I would always wonder what's happening in some dark mysterious corner of the barrel that might retain a drop of water after cleaning.
I've never seen flash rust, never even heard of it before finding this forum, and I have always used hot soapy water. Cold water may work just as well, but I would always wonder what's happening in some dark mysterious corner of the barrel that might retain a drop of water after cleaning.
Rust is Rust, whether it's named flash or normal doesn't matter, it's still rust.
To help rid my barrels of any "wet", after a few dry patches I pour Denatured Alcohol in the bore and slosh it back-n-forth, pour it out then a few more dry patches.
The alcohol mixes with water and helps it evaporate.
That's my technique,
To help rid my barrels of any "wet", after a few dry patches I pour Denatured Alcohol in the bore and slosh it back-n-forth, pour it out then a few more dry patches.
The alcohol mixes with water and helps it evaporate.
That's my technique,
I use warm water with about 2 drops of Dawn in a 5 gal bucket, 1/2 filled. I don't think hot water is needed. I think where the very hot water comes from, is it evaporates a little more quickly. I always immediately dry with patches, follow up with Ballistol, then use Rem oil, so rust is never a problem.
ohio ramrod
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Simple chemistry. The fouling from black powder is water soluble, the warmer the water the faster it dissolves. But our hands tend to burn above 150 degrees F. Also simple physics, the warmer the water the faster it will evaporate (dry). So therefore I like the water just as hot as I can handle the gun without burning my hands. I let my hands determine the temperature rather than a thermometer. :idunno:
Billnpatti
Cannon
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Cold soapy water will clean your gun quite well but the warmer (within reason) the better it will dissolve the crud. My preference is soapy water about the same temperature that I wash my hands with but my rinse water is as hot as I can get from the tap. If I am someplace where hot water is not readily available, I will make cold water work with just a bit more scrubbing. In the final analysis, it is the soapy water that does the cleaning, the heat is just an adjunct.
Fusilier de 3me said:
Hot water will flash rust the bore putting a brown finish inside.
So room temp is better.
There are all sorts of concoctions people use and have for years. For BLACKPOWDER water is as good as any the fouling sucks up water like a sponge so wetting agents are superfluous. Unless there is something in bore besides BP fouling. Soapy water is probably a good idea if chlorate fouling is present and this may be where "hot soapy water" cleaning came from. Corrosive caps and now synthetic powders that contain ingredients that leave chlorate fouling behind require more intensive cleaning than BP.
Using Water Soluble oil mixes for cleaning is a bad idea. If does not clean as well can may leave fouling in the bore that still has some fouling in the breech is then oiled and then fired the foulign with petroleum added will be hardened. This stuff can set up like concrete.
Dan
Just plain water removes the powder fouling nicely but I use a little dishwashing soap in my bucket of water to help cut the oil from the patch lube that is left in the bore when the gun is shot.
Like necchi says, rust is rust but like any chemical reaction, heat speeds it up.
If the conditions are right, flash rust can form while the bore is still damp, before the water has evaporated.
Yes, its a very thin coating of rust but it can be irritating to run a clean patch down what should be a clean bore only to find a light coating of rust on the patch when it's removed.
Like necchi says, rust is rust but like any chemical reaction, heat speeds it up.
If the conditions are right, flash rust can form while the bore is still damp, before the water has evaporated.
Yes, its a very thin coating of rust but it can be irritating to run a clean patch down what should be a clean bore only to find a light coating of rust on the patch when it's removed.
Your're right about the rust on the patch, Zonie, but the layer of rust is microscopically thin, and is completely removed after the patches come out clean.
The problem lies in leaving a gun in this condition. After using Ballistol, I can come back to my guns weeks later, run a patch through the barrel, and the patches look clean.
The problem lies in leaving a gun in this condition. After using Ballistol, I can come back to my guns weeks later, run a patch through the barrel, and the patches look clean.
My tap water heated to 120 degrees has never produced " flash rust" or any other kind of rust. Don't use soap or detergent.
My well water first goes through a very efficient iron filter and then a water softener.....the water is extremely "soft" and the iron content is nil. Just wondering if it's the iron content in untreated water that causes the "flash rust"?.....Fred
My well water first goes through a very efficient iron filter and then a water softener.....the water is extremely "soft" and the iron content is nil. Just wondering if it's the iron content in untreated water that causes the "flash rust"?.....Fred
