WEAPON

[mikelange]

David --

My thought on target guns -- with which you are free to disagree -- is that they're still guns, no matter how specifically designed for punching holes in paper. The purpose of target shooting, in the beginning, was to hone one's skill as a shooter for those times that personal need or government decree made the ability to shoot well a matter of life or death. However far from that origin our guns and intentions may be, I still feel that we're talking about weapons. I also, however, agree with the several posters who have suggested that we agree to disagree, because this is an unwinnable argument. Too many differing points of view that assign differing degrees of priority to intent and the specific use of a specific gun at a specific moment.

 

[hobbles]

just postin
I read this some where,,
Current Quote
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
~ Sir Winston Churchill

 

[Mulebrain]

The weapon is any tool or object that is used to increase the range and power of a human hand. Therefore they are weapons! Wether or not you choose to call them that is ones own business :grin:

 

[Hoyt]

I see bows, as bows, guns to hunt with...or just shoot, sticks for snakes and weapons as military tools or to use against mankind.

 

[pathfinderifh]

Gents:
An interesting discussion in terminology. If you carry a knife in your pocket, is it a weapon or a tool? Depends on your intent.


It's like the difference between a grave robber and an archioligist, intent. Weapon has a negetive connotation, and when we speak to Mr.&Mrs soccer mom, the last thing we need to do is give them a negetive. We need to show the positives of the shooting sports if we don't want them to die with our generation,IMHO


Pathfinder

 

[jtmattison]

Have we run this topic into the ground yet?

Why don't we all agree to disagree as Claude said.

I can't believe it's gone this long :youcrazy:

Huntin Dawg

 

[Mike Brooks]

Why is it so necessary to keep splitting hairs on these things?

Because every so often, out of the blue, someone has to start a thread with, "Here's something we can argue about". :rotf:

Jeez Dale, sorry I ever started the thread :shake:

 

A GUN was designed to KILL, therefore it IS a weapon.

Surely that is a rather over simplification? Many firearms (specifically target rifles) were never designed as weapons.

As has been mentioned so many times before, target guns were an after thought. The first guns were designed as weapons of war.

You can use a pencil to pick your nose if you wish, but it was still designed as a pencil.

:shake:

 

[bnail]

I do so miss these "debates", they do tend to liven things up a bit. :thumbsup:
Mike, I fully appreciate your opinion on this matter, but For my part, I consider any firearm a weapon; however, in light of the purpose of Muzzleloaders, I find myself seeking other synonyms for my wood and iron companion, as the term "weapon" just doesn't cut it for me.
how about this:
"An out-spoken, flinty-lipped, brazen-faced jade" :hatsoff: :winking:

 

[ResearchPress]

A GUN was designed to KILL, therefore it IS a weapon.

Surely that is a rather over simplification? Many firearms (specifically target rifles) were never designed as weapons.

As has been mentioned so many times before, target guns were an after thought. The first guns were designed as weapons of war.

So what if target rifles were an 'after thought', that does not change their design purpose, ie. sports equipment!

I have military rifles that were designed as weapons and target rifles that were designed for sport. I don't use any of my rifles for hunting or defence/offence they are just firearms. 'Weapons' only describes the original purpose of some of my firearms.

I just don't see it as 'black and white' as some here obviously do.

David

 

A GUN was designed to KILL, therefore it IS a weapon.

Surely that is a rather over simplification? Many firearms (specifically target rifles) were never designed as weapons.

As has been mentioned so many times before, target guns were an after thought. The first guns were designed as weapons of war.

So what if target rifles were an 'after thought', that does not change their design purpose, ie. sports equipment!

I have military rifles that were designed as weapons and target rifles that were designed for sport. I don't use any of my rifles for hunting or defence/offence they are just firearms. 'Weapons' only describes the original purpose of some of my firearms.

You have missed the whole point, but you can't redefine history.

Nobody is debatng the intent of a "target rifle". That's not the point. The point is GUNS WERE DESIGNED AS WEAPONS. What you use them for is not the point. You can use them as a door stop, but that won't change anything.

The pencil was invented to write with. If you choose to use it as a back scratcher, does that mean it's no longer a pencil? Hello... is there anyone out there? :rotf:

Somebody lock this thread. :shake:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Somebody lock this thread.

Just admit I'm right and the thread is over, as I've stated many times I'm ALWAYS RIGHT :blah: I'm sort of like the Fatdutchman in that respect. :haha:
I honestly wish I would have never started the thread, I had no idea a few people would be so offended by something so simple and unimportant. You're more than welcome to call that thing you shoot lead projectiles out of anything you want. :winking:

 

[Stumpkiller]

WEBSTER SAYS:

Main Entry: 1weap·on
Pronunciation: 'we-p&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wepen, from Old English w[AE]pen; akin to Old High German wAffan weapon, Old Norse vApn
1 : something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2 : a means of contending against another

Hey! I just realized the PC keyboard is a weapon.

:rotf: :blah: :rotf:

 

[ResearchPress]

You have missed the whole point, but you can't redefine history.

Oh that's fun, and I thought it was you missing the point! I wasn't even aware I had redefined history until you pointed it out for me. :bow:

Nobody is debatng the intent of a "target rifle". That's not the point. The point is GUNS WERE DESIGNED AS WEAPONS.

I agree that firearms have their design origins as weapons. All I have said is that there are certain classes of firearm that have been designed solely for target shooting; what I use them for is not the point. Their design purpose is not weaponry but sporting.

So while you keep finding new ways to entertain your self with a pencil I will enjoy shooting my firearms, both those that were designed as weapons and those that were designed for the fine art of target rifle shooting. :thumbsup:

David

 

[roundball]

WEBSTER SAYS:

Main Entry: 1weap·on
Pronunciation: 'we-p&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wepen, from Old English w[AE]pen; akin to Old High German wAffan weapon, Old Norse vApn
1 : something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2 : a means of contending against another

Hey! I just realized the PC keyboard is a weapon.

:rotf: :blah: :rotf:

.....and a fly swatter might be too....but.....was it designed as a weapon.....or merely to swat flys away in the air as a flying insect management tool?

:rotf: :blah:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Fly swatter, heck. Give THE ADMIRAL a frying skillet or rolling pin and you'll have to rethink the reason for many household items. :shocked2:

Target rifles may be OK for them as afraid of the outdoors, but, as Col. Pete Townsend (Who?) said: "Only hunting rifles are interesting."

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Target rifles may be OK for them as afraid of the outdoors, but, as Col. Pete Townsend (Who?) said: "Only hunting rifles are interesting.

Well, since we're quoting obscure people of the past, Col. Hawker said " Only a novice needs a front sight on a fowling piece." :shocked2:
Of course , I myself don't have front sights on any of my bird guns...... :blah:

 

[mikelange]

Mike --

Even when I disagree with someone, or they're offended (which is entirely their choice, if all you did was disagree with them), I find discussions of this sort to be interesting, and I for one am not sorry you brought it up. I'm steady enough in my own beliefs and opinions to be able to listen to someone else's, without it turning my world upside-down.

Considering we're all on the same side, here, this is an extremely petty point to get jacked out of shape about. If you (meaning anyone out there, not just you, personally, Mike) don't care to call your gun a weapon, that's fine. I consider mine to be one but, as stated, tend to avoid actually calling it that. Not because I'm afraid of offending people, but because most of the people in my life who've referred to their guns as "weapons" as a standard practice were Jeff Cooper wannabe jerks who, just for the record, would consider us all losers for wasting our time with obsolete "weapons". This description, by the way, is not intended as a statement about the guys on this forum who use the term "weapon"; I'm talking solely about a few blowhards who've influenced the way I, personally, regard my guns and how I use them.

Too many people out there would just as soon take all our firearms, guns, rifles, pistols, weapons, peashooters, and slingshots away from us, never mind what we call them. If your purpose in avoiding the term "weapon" is to fly under their radar, and to avoid a negative impression being made on the undecided, more power to you. Any good that anyone attempts to do himself and his fellow shooters is all right by me.

 

[roundball]

Fly swatter, heck. Give THE ADMIRAL a frying skillet or rolling pin and you'll have to rethink the reason for many household items. :shocked2:

Target rifles may be OK for them as afraid of the outdoors, but, as Col. Pete Townsend (Who?) said: "Only hunting rifles are interesting."

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Kind of like Jack O'Conner...any caliber is fine as long as it's a .270 or .30-06!

 

[Mike Brooks]

Too many people out there would just as soon take all our firearms, guns, rifles, pistols, weapons, peashooters, and slingshots away from us, never mind what we call them. If your purpose in avoiding the term "weapon" is to fly under their radar, and to avoid a negative impression being made on the undecided, more power to you. Any good that anyone attempts to do himself and his fellow shooters is all right by me.

My "thing" about the label "weapon" has nothing to do with trying to be politically correct, I've never been politcally correct about anything in my life. ALL of my intrests and hobbies are completly non PC in todays world, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying my intrests. I'm probably classified waaaayyyyy past the right of the radical conservative right when it comes to politics and aren't concerned with being politically correct.
I've just never considered any of my sporting guns weapons is all because I have no "intent" to kill somebody with them. To me the term "weapon" indicates "intent of usage".
I consider my sporting guns to be no different than a bow or a fish hook other than the fact that guns are infinantly higher in the "cool factor" area. Bows and fish hooks aren't weapons in my world either.
It's really no big deal, and I'm more than willing to let everyone call thier gun what ever they want to.