What can we use after lead

[armymedic.2]

Paul, i beleive you and like minded people would be very interested in the read The Omnivores Dilema by Micheal Pollan.
It is a little slow at first, but dives into the difference of beasts we eat now and what it was like just 50-100 years ago. It's funny to see how badly we have screwed everything up by feeding corn to animals that are meant to eat grass. although not exactly on topic, the similarities in debate are very similar.
Of course i am a black angus farmer pushing the "new" market of grass fed, but the read is very interesting to those even who are not concerned with what real cattle should be.

 

[dlemaster]

two-bellys
This is not directed to you in particular but when you said that you ate all the paint off the windows when you were a kid (LOL) it brought it to mind.
Several years ago I talked with a doctor who we were turkey hunting with and the subject of lead came up. I was concerned because my then young kids and I were eating a lot of small game I killed. I know we had to be ingesting at least some of the shot pellets. The doctor told me I didn't have too much to worry about since the shot pellets would pass through the digestive tract before becoming toxic. He said the big problem is lead oxide.
It is that thick white coating most all of us have seen on those old battlefield recovered mini bullets from the Civil War. Lead oxide is easily absorbed by the body. Lead oxide was added to oil based paint to aid drying. I know lead oxide was also added in boiling linseed oil used for stock finishing to speed up drying.
The doctor reminded me to remember all those wounded Civil War veterans, and others, who carried around lead bullets in their bodies and lived very long lives, some well into the 20th century.
It made sense to me.

Regards, Dave

 

[RedFeather]

So, to get back into the vein of this thread, anyone tried some of these soft copper X bullets or their cousins? I'm wondering what fps is needed for reliable expansion?

 

[CrackStock]

Pure copper is too light to be a decent bullet. It needs something heavy to carry it through flight. Something like lead.

Stop looking for an alternative when there is not one. Fight on that ground and give none.

CS

 

[RedFeather]

Well, stnading your ground is one thing, but I think the original question is what could be used in place of lead? Must be some alloy out there.

 

[Nimrod]

What can we use ? correct I cant think of a thing that is as cheap as lead. It was asked to wake everyone up & make you think about it.... we all bitching and winning about modern verses traditional and the politions {Bradey Bill& Democrats behind it}are going to take away what All hunters use to hunt with 99.5% of us LEAD the other .5% use brass. No lead no hunting you dont need guns anymore. Couldnt take our guns away from us YET they will take away what we use in them. So they are saying we are poluting the earth our water supply where does lead come from . We need to tell DFG to wake up no hunters no hunting license no DFG. They are going to wittle us down 1 peg at a time while the modern & traditional [All of US} have our noses up in the air so far we dont see what is under it.
I am so :cursing: Now the latest {we know who this is} the rb doesnt have the required 1000 ft lb required to kill a deer humanley. just another notch in the peg. I am done :yakyak:

Devide and Conquer.


Nimrod

PS deleate this post if you think it is going too far.

 

[Jac Spring]

Yes, we must all stand together - just ask Jim Zumbo :haha:

Seriously, I have a bow, muzzle loaders, single shots, lever actions, bolt actions and autoloaders. Handguns, shotties and rifles.

I tend not to depricate any one area of interest so as not to land one on my own foot. :winking:

Oh, and I use them for plinking, target shooting, competition and hunting - and of course, self defense.

I like to think I'm a Rennaisance gun nut. :shocked2:

 

[markinstettler]

There really isn't an alternative as good as lead. Search the archives on this issue and you'll quickly come to understand that.

If you care about this issue of legislation against the use of lead at all the best strategy is to meet with your representatives in person ASAP. Failing that, a letter goes a long way. Petitions and picketing and such are largely ineffective. I successfully lobbied a city of a million to change their street lighting fixtures. The trick is that you have to be right in the first place and able to communicate your arguments. If I can do it, it ain't that hard.

In person, or in print, the real trick is to be down-to-earth and have references to literature (or copies of the literature) that supports your view. Going off topic (ie. like Paul did by bringing up hunting) is a definite no-no. If, like often gets stated here, you put forth that it is just a left-wing anti-gun plot, you will probably do more harm than good.

It sounds like this is something that we should organize on. I would suggest that any literature for or against the use of lead in firearms be shared here in a thread in the hunting regulations forum.

 

[zodd]

Morinin' all- Big problem here in Oz too.This is a classic 'round the back gate' method to close down and restrict the activities of people interested in shooting[url] sports.In[/url] New South Wales (my home state) we have had a number of proposed new ranges (outdoor ranges) stopped dead in their tracks, by our Greens' and other anti gun groups raising the lead furphy (run off will poison streams, animals will eat the lead projectiles,shooters will shoot at animals wandering onto the range etc, etc , etc)All complete manure and unsupported by any Australian study.Most people associate lead with being poisonous, no matter what it's form or application, so its easy to play on their fears.Our anti gun groups have have found the Development application And the Enviromental Impact Study very handy tools to Politically manipulate. .The "Precautionary Principle" is often trotted out and remember that unbiassed science will be quickly kicked out the window when there are Fears whipped up, possible Votes to be had or Agenda's to be run.The science done in Oz ( effects of lead shot on waterfowl) pretty much mirrors what Paul V. has already stated (that guy is one big mine of info :thumbsup: ).Metallic lead is relatively benign.The shot tends to stabilize quickly by forming calcinate crusts on its surface ( in effect stopping the oxidization that forms lead oxide); because of it's weight it tends to sink below river bottom sediments and gravels; a small proportion of ducks are found with amounts of shot in their craws-none so far none have shown dangerously elevated lead levels in blood, though have shown some small elevation;ducks expell their craw contents regularly and there is a quick turnover of material; there has been No link demonstrated between lead shot ingestion and duck mortality (except the obvious :grin: )in Australian studies.But guess what-lead shot is banned over water, in those few places where one can still legally hunt ducks (cant hunt them at all in N.S.W) you have to use Bismuth ($$$$) or Steel shot (actually soft iron).In OZ duck hunting with shot gun, which my parents generation happily did and understood, has been turned into an emotive,hand wrigging exercise by those opposed to hunting/shooting of any kind.There are many ways to skin a cat-all the best zodd

 

[mbritt]

Please forgive me if I'm getting off topic. I've been thinking about using a corner of my Dad's cow pasture as a place for me to practice shooting clay pigeons. There's no chance of my shooting a cow, but I thought with a lot of lead pellets on the ground the grass might absorb the lead and the calves get lead poisoning from eating the grass and I get lead poisoning when I eat the calf. I'm skeptical that the cows would absorb lead this way, but can't find anything on the Internet to back up my opinion.

 

[shmrck1]

Nimrod,
I suppose we could use paper balls(spitballs). No that would'nt work....would be
littering:hmm: Hate to make light of a serious
subject but I just get fed up with how far these
idiots go to push their own agendas.:cursing:
snake-eyes

 

[Old Charlie]

Nothing! If they outlaw lead you might as well burn you stocks for fire wood and make fence posts of the barrels.
This is just the anti-gun people trying to finish us off. Don't lt them get away with it.
Old Charlie

 

[spudnut]

Ive been tested for lead,no lead poisoning, and I used to bite and chew and probably swallow a lead pellet from time to time when I was little.I remember getting ahold of mercury /quicksilver and running it around on a table top,No merc poisoning here either.Now they'll close a building down and just about condemn it if a thermometer breaks..Mark

 

[bigbore442001]

Time to stock up on it anyways.

 

[Slamfire]

Ive been tested for lead,no lead poisoning, and I used to bite and chew and probably swallow a lead pellet from time to time when I was little.I remember getting ahold of mercury /quicksilver and running it around on a table top,No merc poisoning here either.Now they'll close a building down and just about condemn it if a thermometer breaks..Mark

Mercury isn't really dangerous until it has been either vaporized and inhaled, or metabolized by somethin' you et.

 

[AzShooter]

I just stocked up on another 150 lbs of lead from the locl scrap yard. $.75 a lbs. He had tons of it but I figured I'll just go back when I need more.I called 5 yards before I found this guy

Over the next year I expect to buy a few hundred lbs and then not worry.

 

[markinstettler]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that (even if we were all negligent and didn't talk to our representatives) lead is going to be banned outright. Hunting with lead might be a different story, but if you're willing to cast your own RB you shouldn't have any problems finding lead and legally using it for shooting target.

A voluntary program to manage lead build-up at shooting ranges would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the anti-gun lobbies.

 

[wetpowder]

Lead will kill anything if you shoot it enough :hmm: I suppose

 

[Todd Rickard]

When I was a teenager we carried our pellets in our lip like chew. We shot almost daily for a few years. More than one pellet got swallowed and I have a healthy son. I also remember playing with mercury when a thermometer broke.
Inhaling the fumes from melting lead may be different. Now days I wash my hands after handling and melting lead.

 

[Old Charlie]

A voluntary program to manage lead build-up at shooting ranges would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the anti-gun lobbies.

No the anti-gun folks would just say look they know lead is bad they have a clean up program. But they can't clean it out of the woods so it should be banned. Never give them an inch!
Old Charlie