What does a longer barrel add to a rifle's ability that a shorter one gives up ?

[tenngun]

Ozarks is an old Indian word for brush to thick to walk through
Another translation is trail very rocky
Or it’s all up hill from here
In any case I’ve not found a short gun to be advantage

 

[biliff]

As others have said you get a bit more velocity and a longer sight radius. The front sight on a longer barrel will also cover a smaller area of the target (assuming both sights are of equal width to begin with). I've also found my 46" barrel brings the muzzle and ball into the focus area for my bifocals so I can see the sprue when I'm loading (that's a joke). Never really found longer barrels to be an issue in handling since you aren't really taking fast snap shots with a muzzleloader to begin with and getting tangled up in the brush just doesn't happen unless you're running away from a bunch of angry hornets.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

The major advantage to the very long barrels is the alibi you get for missing the shot offhand. The ball just takes longer to exit that long barrel while you wander off center a few thousands.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I’m 6’6” the long barrel makes a better walking stick and leaning post. (Clear of muzzle of course)

 

[BS]

Simple answer is that it gets you closer to the target!

 

[mushka]

Having read all the posts, they are all in their own ways correct. Personally I buy what like to look at.

 

[dkasprzak]

Where I hunt on my farm the woods isn't too thick. I'm not hunting in brush thicker than a stone wall. There are many deer trails running through the woods that are quite wide. I would say the deer woods I hunt are quite open with a seldom few areas of overgrowth. I don't hunt from a tree stand I usually sit up against a tree or behind a log or dirt embankment and just wait for em. Sometimes I stalk but not often. As for carrying the rifle I'd say maybe only a walk of about 12 acres at the most at any given time before I find a spot to stop and that is probably an exagerrated maximum. Farthest shots will be 75~80 yards at the most even when I get 100% comfortable with my rifle whatever I choose. I also don't know if I should stick with a .50 or .54 as a choice or go down to a .45 or .40 as supplies aren't exactly growing on trees and I will be doing a lot of practice shooting. Hope this helps it didn't even cross my mind how the terrain would affect the rifle choice. Thanks for pointing that out and I hope this additional information gives a better explanation than my original post.

@PowderSchooner After reading this post I would seriously say… buy the one that makes you smile. Any of the guns you described that are for sale will do just fine for your type of hunting. When you find the one you keep going back to just because “it makes you smile”, buy it. You will always want to shoot and hunt with that gun and consequently you will never be disappointed in the purchase.

As far as choosing a caliber, any of the ones listed will do as long as you do your part. The .40 can also serve as the squirrel gun.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Just buy what looks good and what you like that’s the important thing. Of course if you fall in love with all of them you have a financial problem not to mention the wife. Whatever the length of barrel it will kill , think of the .45 Gibbs target rifle 36” barrel made for 600 to 1000 yard target. shooting.
I do wish you well. But check their true value , Do your homework.

I wish you well
We all wait to see the photos

 

[Gordoncourtney]

To dig a bit deeper on the sight plane length.

For older shooters the sight picture becomes more difficult to put together due depth of focus issues. One thing that helps is moving the rear sight forward. A longer barrel allows that and still helps keep a longer sight plane.

I used to shoot with an older guy who had two extra dovetails between the breech and the dovetail that held his rear sight. The extras had brass inserts with dates stamped in them. Said they sort of documented his aging eyesight. Also said there is historical documentation for it.

I have a friend who can only shoot accurately using a pistol scope halfway up the barrel I am exaggerating he dose manage with iron sight , I might say he’s not into ML

 

[MrMackc]

Hello everyone, recently I popped a question on here about a 46" Barrel .50 caliber rifle and it was pretty vague after not being able to take pictures of the rifle per the seller's request. The same seller called me last night letting me know he will be willing to sell 7 more of his rifles and let me have a first crack at which one(s) I wanted to buy. I went over early this morning and looked them all over and they are all very nice rifles. 3 of them have 46" barrels and are .40, .45 and .50 cal. 2 have 33" Barrels and are both .54 caliber. The final 2 rifles are an original 1817 Common Rifle made in 1841 with a flintlock and is .54 caliber 33" Barrel and final rifle is a .77 caliber Jäger Rifle and has a 32" barrel and was made in the 1930s. My question is this simply put, what would a 46" Barrel give you that a 33" barrel couldn't if both barrels were same twist rate and caliber. Also if the longer barrel had a slower twist rate than the shorter barrel would that be a more accurate rifle ? My apologies if I'm being a nuisance on this forum but I'd rather not buy a rifle online to where I can't see it nor return it if it's a custom rifle purchase from a private party. These rifles are local and can be held and seen with my hands and eyes so I'm very interested in them. Thanks to all who can help me with this question as I've been reading older forum posts and have been getting too many conflicting results that have lead me nowhere for about 3 hours. Thanks to all who reply.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that if you had a long barrel and wanted a shorter barrel ,all you had to do was get a blacksmith to cut it oof, but if you had a short barrel and wanted a longer barrel. either order another long barrel rifle or you were just SOL.

 

[bluemule66]

don't forget if you go with a long barrel you may need a roof rack on your car to haul it around!

 

[longcruise]

don't forget if you go with a long barrel you may need a roof rack on your car to haul it around!

Yup! And a taller tent.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The same seller called me last night letting me know he will be willing to sell 7 more of his rifles and let me have a first crack at which one(s) I wanted to buy. I went over early this morning and looked them all over and they are all very nice rifles. 3 of them have 46" barrels and are .40, .45 and .50 cal. ..., My question is this simply put, what would a 46" Barrel give you that a 33" barrel couldn't if both barrels were same twist rate and caliber.

Ah but they're not, eh? From your descriptions, the long barrels and short barrels don't have a crossing over caliber...
So folks have mentioned that the longer barrels will give you a longer sight plane. This is true and make it easier for a shooter's eye to give an accurate shot. Will the barrel be more accurate, no, if the accuracy of the barrel itself is bad, then a longer sight plane may help reduce the group but won't fix the actual problem. The front sight must be rather thin, and you the shooter must be able to see that thin front sight out there near the end of the 46" barrel.

Some folks mentioned higher velocity. Well, on paper, yes. The problem is for example you have the choice of a .40..., were you to use a moderate load of say 30 grains for squirrel or rabbit..., the friction of the barrel walls might actually slow your patched round ball down a bit as it travels 46" compared to a 33" barrel in .40 caliber using the same load.

Some folks have mentioned shooting..., Well that too depends. A very long barrel may give you a very "nose heavy" rifle, which some folks like when shooting from the standing, unsupported position. Some rifle makers might, however, balance that rifle by using some weight in the butt..., if they didn't like it that nose heavy. I don't shoot much standing, unsupported, so that wouldn't help me much, but it might help you.

Now, the slower twist rate is not going to make the rifle more accurate, per se. It normally allows for the shooter to shoot more powder, without the danger of the ball and patch disengaging from the rifling while moving up the barrel. But this normally isn't a problem unless very stout loads are used, and most folks even when hunting don't go that high. NOW for long range shooting, technically the slower twist will allow higher muzzle velocity, and thus less bullet drop on targets beyond 100 yards, so some will say that makes a slow twist rate more accurate. At under 100 yards, likely will not matter.

Do any of the rifles have set triggers? That may be a factor to consider as well.

LD

 

[Twisted_1in66]

A longer barrel adds two things: (1) muzzle velocity for a given load, and (2) length of sighting plane (and so potentially improved accuracy for a given shooter, if using standard iron sights).

Of course, it also typically adds weight and subtracts some degree of "handleability".

very true unless the barrel is a swamped barrel, which became really rare after Remington invented a machine capable of drilling out a bore from a molded steel barrel around 1832 if I recall. Those barrels were straight or straight-tapered. The swamped barrels which tapered from the breech towards the middle of the barrel and then tapered back up from about 8" to 12" back from the muzzle. I have a 44½ swamped barrel on my Early Lancaster and it is both lighter and night & day easier to hold on target than the 40¾" straight taper barrel on my Traditions longrifle. the balance on my Early Lancaster falls right where I hold the forearm of the stock with my left hand. Any swamped barrel would be easier to handle than a straight tapered barrel of the same length.

Comparing that longer barrel to the Jaeger rifle though, the Jaeger may actually be heavier than the longer barrelled longrifle just because they were robust rifles with thick barrels. But it might possibly have a swamped barrel. You'll just have to look at it.

As folks have said earlier, the longer sighting plane definitely improves the accuracy. It also gives the black powder time to burn and reach its best pressure. Unlike modern smokeless ammo where the more you put in the faster it will burn, black powder has a maximum burn rate. And, if you load more powder than can burn before it comes out the end of the barrel, that powder is wasted and has no effect on the pressure on the roundball.

I remember when I first got my Traditions longrifle, taking it out in the cold and snow of Vermont one bright -11° day and firing it in a quarry. I kept adding powder until I hit either 105gr. or 110gr. Was back in the early 2000's and I don't recall for sure. But at that high charge the unburned black powder fell out on the snow in front of me. When I backed it down to 95gr. I not only got no powder residue falling in the snow, I also got the best accuracy with that load. My longer barreled Early Lancaster rifle has the best accuracy with 80grs. so I never tested it like I did the traditions.

Both rifles should be accurate with the nod going to the one with the longer sighting plane. If you get the one with the long barrel, one of the nice things it does though is rest quite nicely on tree branches while you take your shot if you're in a wooded area. If you are going to be hunting in a brushy area though, the Jaeger should handle much more easily.

 

[doubleset]

very true unless the barrel is a swamped barrel,

So why the early development of swamped barrels rather than fluted barrels? Easier to machine with what was available at the time (lathe as opposed to milling machine)?

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I was always under the impression that the barrels were longer due to the powder used, longer barrel gave more complete burning with the powder used at that time.

 

[david w]

I was always under the impression that the barrels were longer due to the powder used, longer barrel gave more complete burning with the powder used at that time.

That is what I understand is they were longer because of the quality of the poeder.

 

[M. De Land]

To dig a bit deeper on the sight plane length.

For older shooters the sight picture becomes more difficult to put together due depth of focus issues. One thing that helps is moving the rear sight forward. A longer barrel allows that and still helps keep a longer sight plane.

I used to shoot with an older guy who had two extra dovetails between the breech and the dovetail that held his rear sight. The extras had brass inserts with dates stamped in them. Said they sort of documented his aging eyesight. Also said there is historical documentation for it.

A couple of things leaned from long years of muzzle loading and black powder cartridge shooting is using a wide post/blade up front instead of the fine beads most originals had and the use of rear apertures for hunting or where legal for target shooting. Both will greatly aid accuracy potential especially for older eyes.
A wide profile partridge style front will give better definition in all light conditions as well as target shapes than will a thin blade profile and the aperture rear removes one sight plain your eyes have to try and focus on an increases sight radius.
Barrel length for practical purposes is what ever you use the rifle for and your stature . My favorite target muzzle loading rifles have 32 and 36 inch barrels and I'm only 5' 6". Long barrels don't suit my stature as well as taller shooters.

 

[DuncNZ]

The German Jager was made short because it was a hunting rifle used in heavy forest and mountains . a rifle used in steep mountains needs a sling , so both hands are free for climbing . It needs a big bore so the corresponding big ball will drop an animal on the spot . Loosing a good animal over a cliff or having it roll hundreds of feet to a spot where it can not be accessed is no fun , and can be a common occurrence.
A long barrel makes it hard to carry the rifle on a sling as it gets caught up in branches etc .

 

[doubleset]

A couple of things leaned from long years of muzzle loading and black powder cartridge shooting is using a wide post/blade up front instead of the fine beads most originals had and the use of rear apertures for hunting or where legal for target shooting. Both will greatly aid accuracy potential especially for older eyes.

Yeah, I agree ... But I've had difficulty setting up such a sight pair to my liking on BP rifles, mostly because the aperture (or close to aperture, such as a full buckhorn) sits higher above the barrel plain, and the drop at the comb is so dramatic compared to contemporary rifles. So I find it really difficult to get a solid and repeatable cheek weld that puts me in the same position for each shot with the peep or buckhorn if it's mounted in the standard rear sight dovetail -- raising my head or at least my chin to line up the sights, and that's no good. You can solve that problem if you use something like a tang-mounted aperture, but those aren't acceptable in a lot of traditional muzzle loading target circumstances.