What is about a Hawken Rifle

[LME]

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It may not be an original but I wasn’t around then to ask Sam build me one. So I asked John Bergmann to do mine and Im real happy with the results. Just sayin

I think mr. Hawkins would be proud of mr. Bergmans work?

 

[Jim Wag]

I definitely love the way a Hawken feels when you shoulder one and the way they look. Like one gentleman said “ just something about them”.

I bought a .54 caliber, 30” GMB, Siler lock with Davis double set triggers. I bought this gun from Deer Creek Guns here in Georgia a couple years back. They didn’t know much about the gun but that it was built by an older gentleman that had passed away. His family had sold off his gun collection.

I love shooting this rifle and have did well in a few matches that I have shot with it. I would like to have known if it was a kit or if he had built it himself. A lot of the inletting was done by hand. So someone put a lot of skillful work into it.

That's a
Beauty

Jim in La Luz

 

[stevew]

Tippit, those are two outstanding looking rifles!

 

[Bergmann]

Let me change my wording: None have been found to date.

There ya go! Much better! lol

 

[Bergmann]

View attachment 95913
When I was in the US Army from 1974 to 1977 I started getting interested in muzzleloaders and it seemed the only thing around were T/C Hawkens. Then a guy came into our unit from Alaska and we got to talking, he had two rifles made by Bill Fuller of Coopers Landing who made rifles. They were identical half stocks except one was percussion and one flint. I was getting ready to ETS and come back to Texas, he suggested I wait until I get home and see if anyone was making muzzleloaders. So I did, I went to the local gunshop and they gave me the name of Davy Boultinghouse in Round Rock Texas. So I looked him up. As a young married pup and just starting a new job and my wife in college, there wasn't a lot of cash around but Davy told me it would be about 9 months before he would have the rifle. Here it is. Douglas XX barrel (the barrel was originally 44", he cut off 10" and breached it up for me. I traded some elk hide pants to another friend who made the pistol. The rifle had Ron Long lock and triggers and it has a nice piece of wood. All for $500. That was 1979 prices. I won a lot of shooting contests with that rifle.

Nice looking piece's. In '79 I could actually make a profit selling a rifle for $500! Today you can't even buy the parts for a rifle like that for less than $800. I recently finished a Hawken/plains style pistol and it wound up with a sale price of around $1400!

 

[plmeek]

Here are a couple of pictures of my Hawken squirrel rifle that was built by John Bergmann. It's .40 caliber and has a 36" barrel that tapers from 7/8" at the breech to 13/16" at the muzzle. Bergmann made this rifle using Don Stith's parts set.

I'm not the original owner of this rifle. Bergmann made it for a gentleman in Missouri. He later wanted a big bore Hawken rifle, so I traded him a custom Hawken rifle that was made from a Cherry Corners kit by an unknown maker in 1976. I feel I got the better end of the trade, but then the other side probably felt the same, which makes for the ideal trade.

Here's a pic of the rifle I trade away.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have seen a rifle made by J. P. Gemmer who owned the rights and the stamps to produce Hawken rifles. It was made just after the Civil War for a young man who wanted to take a rifle out on the western prairies. It was built according to the Hawken architecture and is probably more representative of a "California" Hawken as it is a 45 caliber rifle. It's about a 7/8ths scale rifle. Iron hardware with two wedges. It's stamped J P Gemmer and in my eyes perhaps a better balanced rifle than the larger bored and heavier barreled Hawken Plains rifles and it still has the Hawken pedigree.

We of the J. P. Gemmer Muzzle Loading Gun Club think Gemmer made the best Hawken Rifles.

Yes

 

[Snakebite]

Nice looking piece's. In '79 I could actually make a profit selling a rifle for $500! Today you can't even buy the parts for a rifle like that for less than $800. I recently finished a Hawken/plains style pistol and it wound up with a sale price of around $1400!

At $1400 that sounds like a bargain to me.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Lyman GPR for sale, check out ads.

 

[plmeek]

We of the J. P. Gemmer Muzzle Loading Gun Club think Gemmer made the best Hawken Rifles.

I don't know if you are being serious or being facetious. Nor do I know if you are speaking for everyone in the club. But assuming you are serious and assuming that everyone in the club thinks as you do, how do you prove or demonstrate your belief?

I've looked at several "J. P. Gemmer" marked rifles in Jim Gordon's collection and several more pictures of his rifles that have sold at auctions, and I've yet to see one that matches or exceeds the quality I see in the Kit Carson Hawken in the Santa Fe Masonic Lodge or similar rifles such as Jim Bridger's Hawken in Helena, MT.

So it strikes me as kind of strange that if J. P. Gemmer made these late "S. Hawken" marked rifles, why he would mark his best work with someone else's name and mark lower craftsmanship rifles with his own name.

I admit that I only have a small sampling of "J. P. Gemmer" marked rifles to go by. Maybe you could broach this subject with your club members. They may know of and have pictures of better quality rifles marked "J. P. Gemmer" that you could share with us.

 

[thompson50]

I love a a Hawken Flint, I know they never were but in my mind they always are, how’s that for some deep philosophy it scared me.

The original didn’t have a rice barrel either. I love my flint Hawkens

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm being somewhat facetious. However J. P. Gemmer was a principal gunsmith at the Hawken Shop at the time those late S. Hawken Rifles were being made. @plmeek, John Gemmer probably had a hand in the crafting of those fine rifles. Later when he owned the shop, he may have reserved the S. Hawken stamp for the most finely crafted rifles being made. Those made for a lower price point received the J. P. Gemmer stamp.

 

[fpg68j2p]

This one will be placed up for sale here in a week or so

This has been listed

 

[Tenring]

The original didn’t have a rice barrel either. I love my flint Hawkens

Flint Hawkens are Bad Ass.. O,Yea….

 

[ghostdncr]

My latest is not a Hawken, but it does appear to be an original plains rifle. I think it'd be hard to argue that whoever built it wasn't at least somewhat inspired by Hawken architecture. Although in rough shape, the rifle could be shot with only a little work and I find it fascinating to think about where this rifle's been and what it's seen. There's a thread for it here if anyone's interested in more pics and details: Plains Rifle ID

Anyway, I've owned a number of Hawken-style rifles from .40 to .56 caliber that have included TC (still have a .45 cal), Lyman GPR and several lower-end customs. While not my favorite, there's a solid functionality about this style that I find hard to not like. For some reason, I've long wanted a top quality .52 cal with about ten years worth of hard aging put on it.

You guys sure have some beautiful rifles!

 

[Tenring]

They are nice.

 

[Patched]

Here’s a ”Hawken“ 54 cal I’m finishing up…Don Getz round-bottom rifling 1:72 36” barrel…. scrap walnut from the job…yet to be sighted in…Hawkens have the “feel” on the shoulder and in hand.

 

[Y2GREY]

This is a great thread! The use of the name "Hawken" to describe our beloved plains/Rocky Mountain rifles is similar to the use of the name "Jeep" to describe a small utility 4x4. That said I have several of these from different manufacturers. Since we have a flintlock only season I have a couple of .54 GPRs in flint. I love my Browning although it's a VERY heavy .50 percussion for wet weather. (I'm considering having it bored to .58) Then we have an interesting Hatfield Mountain Rifle also percussion that's a very light .50... the opposite end of the spectrum from the Browning.

 

[Lfpdlt]

This is a great thread! The use of the name "Hawken" to describe our beloved plains/Rocky Mountain rifles is similar to the use of the name "Jeep" to describe a small utility 4x4. That said I have several of these from different manufacturers. Since we have a flintlock only season I have a couple of .54 GPRs in flint. I love my Browning although it's a VERY heavy .50 percussion for wet weather. (I'm considering having it bored to .58) Then we have an interesting Hatfield Mountain Rifle also percussion that's a very light .50... the opposite end of the spectrum from the Browning.

Those Brownings are heavy, mine is a 54 that was bored out from a 50. I have often wondered if it could be bored out to 62!

 

[LME]

I know I really like my LGP rifle, .50 cal percussion. I’ve always thought the attraction to the Hawken style is that they more closely match a modern rifle in handling, and to a certain degree in looks too since they are usually half-stock.

Usually half stocked? I have never seen a half stocked Hawkin? Some rifles are called Hawkin that maybe half stocked but they are just running on a name, I really don't know?