What is it with curved buttstocks?

[user 36911]

Bob explained it perfect. I prefer the Hawken butt plate over any other kind but it has to be mounted correctly.

For those who still don't know it's purpose. watch Bob again. It holds up the gun and it's very stable.

I have to snicker when watching Hickock45 when he shoots his GPR. He's always complaining about the butt plate digging and and so sharp. If he'd just shoulder the gun as he should the problem would go away.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I don't like shooting off my arm most uncomfortable, yet the best Swiss 7.5-53 target shooters seemed to love it, got two and I still cannot get comfy with either , only way to shoot it is off the upper arm, somebody else did not like them and had a modern stock put on his, now that's mine. .5 ML barrel on it now , shotgun primer centre fire. beautiful great rifles though

 

[hanshi]

I started my muzzleloading career with a rifle having a butt plate with pretty good curvature. But the caliber was med-small and the rifle had some weight. The main problem I had with curvy butt plates was that they "caught", "snagged" on my clothing. I now have only one with a strong crescent butt plate. Although it's a very small caliber I prefer to shoot it off the upper arm. The reason? Well if I don't it will tear shirt pockets and hang up.

 

[William Lincoln]

I'm wondering if it doesn't help fix the stock better to the shoulder, when holding a longer heavier barrel out front. Body types being different. Helping offset the tendency to use the supporting
hand as a fulcrum that lets it teeter. In any case, it is sharp looking.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Yes you are right the brass hook butt plate locks around your upper arm on the above swiss rifles, it then stays firmly in place and you could shot with only one arm, these were extremely accurate rifles 1885-say 1910 I did find some demonstrations on UTUBE On one I took the top pommel off and now I can fire it from my shoulder . I found them very interesting that why I bought one then later another such is life and guns.......how this relates to long guns I am not sure. It's an interesting subject

I have one long gun I made with a green mountain barrel and an original 1840 unused warranted flint lock, stock mahogany I am building another .610' with our version of DOM steel 5mm wall. Not happy about it...ill keep it smooth bore although I can riffle barrels.........the barrel being too long to get it drilled form bar an no you cannot buy barrels legally in uk, without a S1 police certificate.....very difficult, don't ask!!! The lock is an 1810-1820 east India version with lion, I got on ebayuk for £220 a better one went for £240 I struggle to get maple here , a chunk of flooring grade maple was £200 so as in the past I am using good old English oak. Many thanks great reading I recently built a double flinter with DO! Tubes and L&R locks it's a double .600 a big heavy brute at Something to do in lockdown.

 

[user 36911]

Bob showed holding up the gun with one hand in his video. Post #8.

 

[user 34300]

It is not about "correctly shouldering" the rife for everyone. IF you have skinny arms and the right bone structure you can use the really tight curved butplates like I pictured. IF on the other hand. you have large muscular shoulders the butplate may not fit around the radius of any part of your shoulder joint.

Holding your elbow up is not a good idea. It causes unnecessary muscular tension. IF that is needed to make the butplate fit over your arm, that rifle is probably not your best bet to shoot you highest score.

It is a small point and individuals vary, but lining up your feet so that a line drawn between the right and left foot points to the target is wrong for most people. The stanace will be a bit more open than that. To determine what works, point the rifle in the most comfortable bone supported direction, with your eyes closed. Open your eyes, adjust your feet so you are pointing at your target.

There is lots of folksy wisdom about shooting in the ML world. Some of it is not so good. The most tried and true off hand position can be found in the Army Marksman Units manual for high power shooting. It is worth reading.

 

[user 36911]

It is not about "correctly shouldering" the rife for everyone. IF you have skinny arms and the right bone structure you can use the really tight curved butplates like I pictured. IF on the other hand. you have large muscular shoulders the butplate may not fit around the radius of any part of your shoulder joint.

Holding your elbow up is not a good idea. It causes unnecessary muscular tension. IF that is needed to make the butplate fit over your arm, that rifle is probably not your best bet to shoot you highest score.

It is a small point and individuals vary, but lining up your feet so that a line drawn between the right and left foot points to the target is wrong for most people. The stanace will be a bit more open than that. To determine what works, point the rifle in the most comfortable bone supported direction, with your eyes closed. Open your eyes, adjust your feet so you are pointing at your target.

There is lots of folksy wisdom about shooting in the ML world. Some of it is not so good. The most tried and true off hand position can be found in the Army Marksman Units manual for high power shooting. It is worth reading.

Not sure I agree. This is me younger in my 40's and I shot a Hawken butt plate with no problem.

 

[user 34300]

You could not have shot the one shown below.

I never got as big as you, but when I was young I could bench over 300#. I can not accomidate the Ohio butplate shown below. It is not a big deal to do some butplate surgery and have something that works. Original rifles were handmade and quite variable. Customizing is good thing.

I have lots of rifles with curved butplates including a very authentic Hawken. Those are not a problem.

 

[user 36911]

Yes, I could. No matter how big you are you'll still have that spot between shoulder and bicep. The but plate fits in perfect. Maybe someone really fat might have a harder time but i'm not sure

 

[oldwood]

Rick...............I almost think curved plates came about as a style thing. Also , many later rifles were small caliber , but maintained heavy barrel dimensions , ie. , fewer tapered barrels in use causing muzzle heavy balance , and a trend to hook the butt on the upper arm and not against the shoulder. Just a guess...........oldwood

 

[Newtire]

I personally am more comfortable with the cross body hold of the crescent butt plate nestled against the upper bicep. I believe it offers more stability than a flat butt held against the shoulder area. The arm should be held at 90 degrees to the body.

I've heard about putting it on top of the bicep but that is a bit painful. Excuse me for asking but I'm thinking it is just above the bicep but not against the meat of your shoulder like with flat buttplates.

 

[Josephg]

Are we talking about butt plates or buttstocks?

Curved buttplates go against your arm just above your bicep. the big wide flat ones go wherever you want.

I shot one of them rifles with the downward curving buttstock. It hammered my cheek and I don't like the looks of them much.

Having said that, I don't like the sharp points just in case I tech one off at the wrong time.

 

[pmccoywss]

It is a small point and individuals vary, but lining up your feet so that a line drawn between the right and left foot points to the target is wrong for most people. The stanace will be a bit more open than that. To determine what works, point the rifle in the most comfortable bone supported direction, with your eyes closed. Open your eyes, adjust your feet so you are pointing at your target.

This varies considerably with body confirmation, and flexibility. The last sentence is a good start, but the stance can be "open" (forward foot left of target for right handed shooter), especially for one who has a large body, or "closed" (forward foot right of target) for skinny or very flexible folks. I used a very open stance for many years, but after losing 75 pounds. I now initially use a slightly open or standard stance (depending on how tight my back is that day), move to a closed stance as I loosen up, then go back to standard or slightly open as I get stiff.

Your stance will change as your muscles loosen (needing a more closed stance), then tighten as they get tired toward the end of shooting (needing to open the stance again).

Make sure you check your stance, and adjust it, as the day goes along.

 

[Bob McBride]

I love the southern 3.5”ish drop at the heel 1/8” castoff crescent buttplate guns but am not interested in shooting one above about .47 cal as the folks in the south 1820-1845 weren’t. The stance these guns require is very stable for the offhand shooting style they most often used in the region and period. As offhand mark shooting went out of vogue in the southern culture, coinciding with the thinning out of the small game that necessitated these small caliber guns, so did the uber-stable style of shooting they were designed for. Is it a perfect design and style? No, but it’s incredibly functional. Most folks, outside of this narrow time and place, just as today, weren’t concerned about the best possible stance in all creation, best castoff, or best drop generically but what worked for them and their bodies. They were as smart as most of us are if not more so in these regards. I love the guns and can bark a squirrel at a much higher rate than with a traditional buttplate and my squirrel dogs thank me for the extra fun of a squirrel that occasionally bounces and gives them a sporting chase before heading up a tree and into a hole…

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I rather like theses Swiss target rifles , got two of them , but don’t like shooting off the upper arm so modified the poorer quality one but the butt drops off big time

 

[Erzulis boat]

It is not so much the curved buttplate by itself, but it is when combined with certain trigger guards that gets me.

I have a "Southern Mountain" rifle that is very awkward to shoot. When the butt is placed on the bicep area, my elbow must go 'out" and this puts my firing hand on the trigger guard at a very uncomfortable angle. It just plain sucks to shoot.

 

[oldwood]

So..........If you are that displeased , you have little to loose. Stock architecture should be set up when the gun is first conceived. Most complaints like your's comes from a gun stock that wasn't set up for you. Length of pull , and drop at comb , make a gun fit an individual. Doesn't matter much what style the parts may be , buttplate on arm or shoulder to front of trigger measurement.....LOP. Try to measure the LOP You shouldn't have to crane your neck forward to see the sights...............oldwood

 

[Elkhorse]

Owning and shooting both styles for decades, I find that I instinctively adjust for the curvature of the butt and the position on the shoulder/arm. I find that the degree of drop has more of an influence on the speed and accuracy of my shooting. Fortunately, my Southern/curved style rifles are lighter recoiling calibers. My Sharps with it’s deeply curved butt and heavy caliber is pure MURDER for me using any style of hold! IMO, one’s particular physical characteristics, conditioning, and practice will result in the preferred style(s) of rifle for natural pointing, and most accurate shooting. My best(and most comfortable) shooting is done with the wider and more subtle curve of the Lancaster and early Colonial style butts and drop, and using a more traditional hold. But, I’ve seen some darn good Southern style rifle shooters!
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Can you put up a picture of the sharps too, please?

 

[Artificer]

On small caliber rifles the deep crescent buttplate is fine but on larger caliber hunting rifles I am a big fan of the flat English style buttplate. It helps spread heavy recoil over a larger area.

AGREE!! The larger the caliber and the heavier the charge, the more flat I prefer the butt plate as well.

Gus