What is your favorite BP substitute?

[jaw69]

Where is your proof it does not I have a 50 Cal I used for 14 years with pryodex only!!! Shot regular 100 or more shots per year Last fall pulled the plug guess what I found Barrel erosion just above the breach it was right at the breach to barrel joint. Enough that I will not shoot it again it is a wall hanger now. That is why I dont shoot subs anymore Nice rifle turned to junk.

 

[Norinco]

I have a feeling that that was from the breech to barrel joint not being cleaned. It's pretty hard to clean that part. Water and powder residue salts can be trapped in the threads of the breech plug. Neither a cleaning jag nor a brush can reach those tiny cracks.

 

[jaw69]

I agree also some was from cleaning issues But this was more that any erosion The barrel builder that was helping me had ever seen in 40 years plus of black powder shooting he attrubited it to shooting pyrodex powder then cleaning as normal black powder Hot water and soap and elbow grease

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have been shooting nothing but Pyrodex for close to 30 years. I have not seen this pyrodex only corrosion. I live in a very DRY area of Idaho maybe that helps, I don’t know. I don’t see rust at all in my guns but I do keep them clean. The only time I have ever seen any red on a patch was from “flash rust” due to cleaning with boiling water. You guys that are trying to scare pyrodex shooters into shooting black withy false “truth” are cracking me up. About the breach plug rotting out. How often do you let a load sit in the barrel for weeks or months on end? I clean my guns after every day shooting or hunting. Even if I don’t shoot a gun while hunting it gets cleaned that night. Ron

 

[Norinco]

Ah, that would explain it. Though the soap being basic (as in acid vs base) should neutralize the acidic stuff.

It is my understanding that some modern cartridge powders produce corrosive basic compounds. Nevertheless, it seems that up until all this "$10 an ounce" cleaning product was available, people used basic compounds. I have a number of dual compartment oil-solvent bottles from Russia and the East Bloc. The solvent compartment is marked as what loosely translates to "alkali or lye" meaning they used basic compounds to clean their powder residue, just like how people have used soap and water for years to clean firearms.

 

[Idaho Ron]

:thumbsup:

 

[Norinco]

Yeah, living in a dry area is a plus. I know with shooting corrosive rounds in cartridge firearms, it's not the residual salts themselves that corrode the steel, there needs to be moisture. Either the moisture reacts with certain ions to produce corrosive ions, or it dissociates salts into ions which then corrode.

I work at a Boy Scout camp in the summers. I don't work in shooting sports but I end up there a lot because that's where my guns are stored.

The camp has two inline blackpowder rifles for the scouts to use. We shoot only Pyrodex out of them because that's what we're issued. They get shot 50-100 times a day. They are only cleaned on Friday. When fouling builds up, we just use a spit patch. I have not seen any corrosion problems in the barrels yet.

 

[jaw69]

Your Talking about Jim McLemore a great maker from way back Ask about him at Friendship some time Im done with this subject Good day to you Sirs

 

[fitter]

Pyrodex is very corrosive. So is soap. End of story.

 

[Norinco]

Blackpowder residue is corrosive as well. The question at hand here is whether Pyrodex or the other substitutes are overly corrosive.

 

[Norinco]

Blackpowder contains potassium nitrate, carbon, and sulfur. The reaction can produce potassium sulfate, potassium sulfide, and potassium carbonate. All of which are basic/alkaline, and therefore corrosive. They are also highly soluble salts.

Potassium is a halogen, halogen ions are present in strong and mid strength acids and bases. The potassium ions in the above mentioned compounds turn into potassium hydroxide when moisture is present. Potassium hydroxide is a strong base. Soap is a weak base. The reason you clean your gun with soap is because the weak base buffers the strong base and you end up with a weak base.

Does anyone know the exact chemicals present in the blackpowder substitutes and the resulting products?

 

[William O.]

For me it would be T-7, I've used it quite a bit and it works well out of my guns. Won't use pyrodex again though, even if it's cheaper.

 

[arcticap]

I use Pyrodex RS in shotguns, Pyrodex P in some rifles, 777 in small caliber rifles and American Pioneer fffg in revolvers.

AFAIK Pyrodex has ingredients that are similar to black powder but with some percolate added. APP is one of several ascorbic acid based powders and Goex Pinnacle is another. I really thought that these were based on extracting sugar from fruit.
I don't believe that any of the substitute powders are synthetic but rather are made from chemical ingredients that have been around for a long time.
I'm not sure about 777 but that may also be another ascorbic acid based powder.

 

[jaw69]

Google Mad Monk on pyrodex Half way down the page. Breech failure Yup and Im the :youcrazy: one :rotf: Keep using the subs. :shocked2: His Name is Bill Knight one of the experts on Black powder and subs

 

[Dphar]

I use Pyrodex RS in shotguns, Pyrodex P in some rifles, 777 in small caliber rifles and American Pioneer fffg in revolvers.

AFAIK Pyrodex has ingredients that are similar to black powder but with some percolate added. APP is one of several ascorbic acid based powders and Goex Pinnacle is another. I really thought that these were based on extracting sugar from fruit.
I don't believe that any of the substitute powders are synthetic but rather are made from chemical ingredients that have been around for a long time.
I'm not sure about 777 but that may also be another ascorbic acid based powder.

There is very little in the subs that is common with BP. I think PDex has a little sulfur to produce smoke and a similar smell but I could be wrong to lazy to look it up.
777 is a kind of super Pdex as I recall.

Dan

 

[Little Wattsy]

Google Mad Monk on pyrodex Half way down the page. Breech failure Yup and Im the :youcrazy: one :rotf: Keep using the subs. :shocked2: His Name is Bill Knight one of the experts on Black powder and subs

"....Often we find that people make EMOTIONAL decisions and will create the facts later to back those decisions up" Randy Hougan
And forget not, my friend, AL Gore is an "Expert" on global warming too... :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Zoar]

I substitute 3FFF for 2FF real black powder all the time!

 

[jaw69]

MAN JUST LOOK IT UP then admit when your wrong I have done everything except read it to you. The evidence is there for my statment Not to mention my own evidence

 

[Little Wattsy]

MAN JUST LOOK IT UP then admit when your wrong I have done everything except read it to you. The evidence is there for my statment Not to mention my own evidence

Ok, Ok, OK! I went online and "Googled IT" and all I could find was that George Bush blew up the twin towers. Now I am disturbed for a differant reason...I did not previously know that GW had blown up the twin towers...Did you? Its AMAZING what you can learn on the internet!!! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[jaw69]

You looked up ( Mad Monk on pyrodex breech ) and didnt find A thread on breech failure thats funny its right on the first page :idunno: