What is your favorite BP substitute?

[Norinco]

Yeah, I don't think any new substances were developed for the purposes of powder substitute. "Synthetic" is just a marketin tagline to make people think they're buying some state of the art, magic substance. The only reason it's "synthetic" is that the chemicals are mass produced in a chemical plant.

The feds restrict blackpowder because it's so easy to ignite right?

 

[David W.]

Black powder is regulated because it is classified as an explosive, albeit a low pressure explosive. Goex has been trying to get it deregulated.

 

[Norinco]

What keeps the substitutes (and modern cartridge powder) from being classified as explosives? Is it the laziness of the ATF? They aren't as easy to ignite, so are they deemed safe enough to transport without hazmat precautions?

 

[Dphar]

Blackpowder residue is corrosive as well. The question at hand here is whether Pyrodex or the other substitutes are overly corrosive.

Try the experiment I did about 30 years back. At the recommendation of Mad Monk.
Take a 1" x 10" x 1/4" steel bar and polish one side bright with a buffer, I used a 400 grit wheel.
Carefully lay a paper over one end and flash off 20 grains of BP at the bare end. Carefully cover the BP fouling with a sheet of paper and then flash Pdex on the other end of the bar. Place on a shelf in your shop or residence or some place protected from the weather for a week or two.
Then you can post your results here.
I know whats going to happen, at least in my climate, but folks need to reach their own conclusions.
Dan

 

[Norinco]

I don't really care about how corrosive Pyrodex is. I'm used to shooting extremely corrosive stuff through my cartridge guns, so careful cleaning is not an issue.

 

[jaw69]

That the thing pryodex is so corrisive that even a few hours can start the pitting then it is a chain reaction of deeper an deeper pitting Then throw in the mix alittle bore butter to lock the clorine salts and acids next to the metal. By the time you see the damage your bore is trash in my case the bore even showed clean patches

 

[Kentuckywindage]

ive hunted with pyrodex in my rifle for 9 days, fired it off to empty it at the end of the hunt and then left it dirty for an additional 2 weeks. Zero rust or pitting. The barrel was stainless steel so maybe that helped a bit? either way, pyrodex is an excellent powder.

 

[Norinco]

Personally I shoot blackpowder in my own gun. I mentioned before the inlines we use at the scout camp I work at over the summer. We clean those once a week and shoot only Pyrodex out of them. We haven't had any problems yet with the barrels. They're all clean and shiny.

 

[stubshaft]

Found the thread. It was a very interesting read. Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to get real black powder where I live. I can only cross my fingers and hope that T7 is not as bad as Pdex.

 

[Little Wattsy]

That the thing pryodex is so corrisive that even a few hours can start the pitting then it is a chain reaction of deeper an deeper pitting Then throw in the mix alittle bore butter to lock the clorine salts and acids next to the metal. By the time you see the damage your bore is trash in my case the bore even showed clean patches

Pyrodex has been around for awhile, shot out of LOTS of muzzleloaders. IF (Yah I know thas a BIG IF) what you are saying had any merit at ALL....there would be law suits, whinnings, gnashings of teeth over the THOUSANDS of guns that turned to dust the week after being violated by Pyrodex. Theres NOT.

 

[arcticap]

AFAIK Pyrodex has ingredients that are similar to black powder but with some percolate added. APP is one of several ascorbic acid based powders and Goex Pinnacle is another. I really thought that these were based on extracting sugar from fruit.
I don't believe that any of the substitute powders are synthetic but rather are made from chemical ingredients that have been around for a long time.
I'm not sure about 777 but that may also be another ascorbic acid based powder.

There is very little in the subs that is common with BP. I think PDex has a little sulfur to produce smoke and a similar smell but I could be wrong to lazy to look it up.
777 is a kind of super Pdex as I recall.

Dan

Here's excerpts from Mad Monk on ALR where he says that Pyrodex does have a share of the same ingredients that black powder has.

Pyrodex uses elemental sulfur in with the potassium perchlorate, potassium nitrate and a bit of charcoal....

The only one [sub. powder] with any straight historical background was GOEX's now defunct Clear Shot powder that was based on the combination of fruit sugar and potassium nitrate. It has history back into the 19th century.

 

[jaw69]

You are right 40 years of pyrodex is along time Against the 400 + years of Black powder :hatsoff: You win I will dump my black powder tonight and RUN to the nearest boxmart store and buy me some Pyro powder to shoot in my Black Powder Guns. Better yet Let just agree to disagree ok

 

[Dphar]

That the thing pryodex is so corrisive that even a few hours can start the pitting then it is a chain reaction of deeper an deeper pitting Then throw in the mix alittle bore butter to lock the clorine salts and acids next to the metal. By the time you see the damage your bore is trash in my case the bore even showed clean patches

Pyrodex has been around for awhile, shot out of LOTS of muzzleloaders. IF (Yah I know thas a BIG IF) what you are saying had any merit at ALL....there would be law suits, whinnings, gnashings of teeth over the THOUSANDS of guns that turned to dust the week after being violated by Pyrodex. Theres NOT.

Do the test I recommended above then make comments.
Until you do you are guessing.
I know the results we got. It was "impressive".
Dan

 

[William O.]

Found the thread. It was a very interesting read. Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to get real black powder where I live. I can only cross my fingers and hope that T7 is not as bad as Pdex.

Not nearly as bad, cleans up easy, just as accurate.

 

[jaw69]

I will try your test tomorrow But I all ready know what the results will be

 

Why is it when someone asks what your favorite sub is, the first answer is "buy black powder" and the second answer is "I don't use subs"?

Shouldn't only people who actually use subs be answering?

Why must everything here turn into a heated debate? :shake:

 

[jaw69]

We that use black powder have used Subs At least I have and found out (sometimes the hard way).That they are junk So I try and help people steering them away from The mistakes I have made and the costs paid. In my case a very nice Hawkin rifle that was going to be a family heirloom I took my first Muzzle loader deer with that gun.It is Gone because I wanted to save a few bucks on pryrocrap.

 

[nw_hunter]

LOL! Sort of my thoughts! I would use Pyrodex P.
I've had real good results using it in Caplocks, and it 's cheaper than most other subs, and available. I clean my guns after a day at the range, so rust is no problem with Pyrodex. :wink:

 

[David W.]

Why is it when someone asks what your favorite sub is, the first answer is "buy black powder" and the second answer is "I don't use subs"?

Shouldn't only people who actually use subs be answering?

Why must everything here turn into a heated debate? :shake:

Some of us HAVE used subs and simply do not like it, that's why we say use real black. Try Swiss, you'll love it, as most NMLRA champs will testify. Without debates, this site would be boring. My favorite sub is still a meatball marinara!

 

[Darkgael]

Yeah, much as I am a fan of the holy black, it is irritating when folk don't answer the posted question.
My "favorite", when I was using Subs, was Pyrodex. I still have some pounds of it sitting on the shelf.
Pete