What model? T/C .45 Cal

[mcknight77]

I have a "Thompson Center .45Cal" percussion with a serial number of 27xxx. It is not labled with Hawken, Seneca, or any other name. Anyone know what this rifle is? Looks and feels much like a Seneca.

 

[Swampman]

It sounds like a Cherokee.

 

[jercon]

I have a Cherokee.in .45 that has nothing on it ,with a .32 Barrel that does have Cherokee.Stamped on it!hope that helps.

 

[MikeC]

What is the length and width of the barrel flat to flat?

 

[roundball]

I have a "Thompson Center .45Cal" percussion with a serial number of 27xxx. It is not labled with Hawken, Seneca, or any other name. Anyone know what this rifle is? Looks and feels much like a Seneca.

The Cherokee was a plain-jane no frills caplock with no brass patchbox and a small 13/16" barrel;
The Seneca was a deluxe version of the same rifle but with brass furniture, brass patchbox, etc.
The Hawken is the only other model I'm aware of that was ever offered in a .45cal.

 

[renovato]

Posting a picture would be helpful. I have a Seneca in .45 that has no name stamp. T/C has done that on and off with several of their models.

 

[Zonie]

Although it may be wrong, the Third Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values 2003, says:

CHEROKEE- .32, .36, or .45 cal. perc., 24 in. octagon barrel, double set triggers, color case hardened hammer and lock, brass trim, American walnut. Disc. 1994.

HAWKEN- .50 or .54 cal. perc, or flintlock, 28 in. octagon barrel, color case hardened hammer and lock, double set triggers, 8.5 lbs.

RENEGADE- .50, .54, or .56 (smooth bore) cal, perc, or flintlock, 26 in. octagon barrel, color case hardened hammer and lock, double set triggers, 8 lbs. Disc,

SENECA- .36 or .45 cal, perc., 27 in. octagon barrel, color case hardened hammer and lock, double set triggers, American walnut, 6 lbs, Disc. 1987.

Based on this, the barrel length might be the best indicator of what model your gun is.

 

[mcknight77]

Thanks to all for their help.

The barrel is 13/16ths flat to flat. Length is 27" to the breech plug, 28" to the tang.

No patchbox. Brass furniture, except for a nickel silver nose piece on the stock. I think that may have been added after-the-fact since there is a gap between it and the beginning of the under-rib.

I talked to Diane at T/C this morning, and she said that it was probably a Cherokee, but could be a Seneca. She also said that in the early 70s T/C would build essentially custom rifles based on customer requests. She also said many rifles went out the door without a "Name" on them. She's printing a set of blueprints for both the Cherokee and the Seneca for me and mailing them to me so I can match up the measurements.

The rifle is a "shooter" and has been used quite a bit. I'm only in it less than $200 so it will remain a shooter.

Jim

 

[MikeC]

My best guess without seeing a picture would be a Cherokee with a Seneca barrel.

 

[roundball]

Although it may be wrong, the Third Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values 2003, says:

CHEROKEE- .32, .36, or .45 cal. perc., 24 in. octagon barrel, double set triggers, color case hardened hammer and lock, brass trim, American walnut. Disc. 1994.

HAWKEN- .50 or .54 cal. perc, or flintlock, 28 in. octagon barrel, color case hardened hammer and lock, double set triggers, 8.5 lbs.

RENEGADE- .50, .54, or .56 (smooth bore) cal, perc, or flintlock, 26 in. octagon barrel, color case hardened hammer and lock, double set triggers, 8 lbs. Disc,

SENECA- .36 or .45 cal, perc., 27 in. octagon barrel, color case hardened hammer and lock, double set triggers, American walnut, 6 lbs, Disc. 1987.

Based on this, the barrel length might be the best indicator of what model your gun is.

From my understanding and old TC catalogs I have, there are some questions about the statements made in that book...for example, I don't believe the Cherokee or Seneca were ever offered in a 24" barrel, or at least the old TC catalogs don't show it.

Also there's no mention of the .45cal in the Hawken model, and no mention of TC's longer 1:66" twist round ball barrels for the Hawken and Renegade...

 

[shdwlkr]

I was just at thompson center muzzle loading page and they made a lot more rifles then I thought they did.
Barrel Twist Chart


\\\\ BIG BOAR
58 1:48 RH
\\\\ SCOUT RIFLE
50 1:38 RH
54 1:38 RH
54 (OCT & ROUND) 1:48 RH
\\\\ BLACK DIAMOND
45 1:28 RH
50 1:28 RH
\\\\ SCOUT CARBINE
50 1:38 RH
\\\\ BLACK MT. MAG
50 1:28 RH
54 1:38 RH
54 1:38 RH
\\\\ CHEROKEE
32 1:30 RH
36 1:48 RH
45 1:48 RH
\\\\ SENECA
32 1:30 RH
36 1:48 RH
45 1:48 RH
\\\\ CLELAND HAWKEN
40 1:48 R
\\\\ TREE HAWK
50 1:20 RH
12 GA SB
\\\\ THUNDERHAWK
50 1:38 RH
54 1:38 RH
\\\\ FIRE HAWK
32 1:48 RH
50 1:38 RH
54 1:38 RH
58 1:48 RH
\\\ WHITE MT. CARBINE
45 1:48 RH
54 1:48 RH
\\\\ GREY HAWK
50 1:38 RH
50 1:48 RH
54 1:48 RH
\\\\ HAWKEN
40 1:48 RH
45 1:48 RH
45 (CUT)1:48 RH
50 1:48 RH
50 (DEEP BUTTON) 1:66 RH
50 (CUT) 1:48 RH
54 1:48 RH
54 (CUT) 1:48 RH
\\\\ HIGH PLAINS SPORTER
50 1:48 RH
\\\\ OMEGA
45 1:28 RH
\\\\ NEW ENGLANDER
50 1:48 RH
54 1:48 RH
12 GA SB
\\\\ PATRIOT
36 1:48 RH
45 (CUT) 1:20
\\\\ PENNSYLVANIA HUNTER
50 (DEEP BUTTON) 28 & 21 Oct 1:48 RH
50 (CUT) 1:48 RH
50 (DEEP BUTTON) 1:66 RH
\\\\ PENNSYLVANIA MATCH HUNTER
50 (CUT) 1:66 RH
\\\\ RENEGADE
50 1:38 RH
50 1:48 RH
50 (DEEP BUTTON)
50 (CUT)1:48 RH
54 1:48 RH
54 (CUT) 1:48 RH
56 SB
58 (CUSTOM)1:48 RH
\\\\ SCOUT PISTOL
45 1:14 RH
50 1:20 RH
54 1:20 RH

also I have two seneca's that have different stock lengths. I would say that you need to look at the stock as well as the barrel width at the flats to get an idea of which rifle you have. My seneca's have 28 inch barrels and are both .36 caliber. Will have a second cherokee in a couple of months.

 

[flintlockmdj]

The T.C. Hawken was most definitely made in .45 cal. The 1:66 twist was a barrel that was offered as an add on much like the G.M. drop in.

 

[roundball]

The T.C. Hawken was most definitely made in .45 cal. The 1:66 twist was a barrel that was offered as an add on much like the G.M. drop in.

Yes, I accumulated a few TC .45s in both cap and flint, in both 1:48" & 1:66" before they discontinued them. Then the .45cal 1:48" did become available again but only with a QLA muzzle.

 

[renovato]

I have seen at least two different stock styles for the Seneca and at least 2 barrel lengths. I always wondered if T/C made changes as they replaced worn tooling. Maybe even installed Seneca fittings on Cherokee barrels to use up a leftover batch. I've seen differences like that on the Patriot pistol also.