What period would the 'trade knives' fit in to?

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Yes - a simple trade "scalper" or "butcher" is most often the best choice. Buying one of the many fantasy or poorly-made knives available on the market supports the old adages that "there is a sucker born every minute" and that "a fool and his money are soon parted"...

I still have one of these crappy knives I bought that is kept as a reminder to do more research and not think with my wallet, because my wallet is stupid.
 
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The owner of this old knife thought enough of it to carve his initial on it....Hugh Glass??

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My best guess is probably not, sorry. I think if Hugh Glass had carved his initials in the handle, he probably would have used H.G.not just H. I'm sure there were tons of people who's name started with H? Henry comes to mind. Just mho, lol.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 
[QUOTEMy best guess is probably not, sorry. I think if Hugh Glass had carved his initials in the handle, he probably would have used H.G.not just H. I'm sure there were tons of people who's name started with H? Henry comes to mind. Just mho, lol.
God bless:
Two Feathers ][/QUOTE]

I've got a banana tree orchard in Montana I'd like to sell you. :rolleyes:
 
My best guess is probably not, sorry. I think if Hugh Glass had carved his initials in the handle, he probably would have used H.G.not just H. I'm sure there were tons of people who's name started with H? Henry comes to mind. Just mho, lol.
God bless:
Two Feathers

I've got a banana tree orchard in Montana I'd like to sell you. :rolleyes:
A quote from Voltaire comes to mind...
 
Is this the one you had in mind?

“Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.” ..
 
From reading Firearms, Traps, &Tools, much of the early steel came from Spain, even the French Axe was of Spanish origin. I think people used whatever they could get though, through conquest, inheritance, or traveling. Daggers, Dirk's, to simple trade knives all existed, but you carried what you could afford.
 
politics aside, business was done with english manufactured supply and products much more than french or spanish because after the end of french and indian wars it was the almost the only option, and it was better quality and larger quantity than competition. legal trade by establishmed traders and illegal trade by smaller traders avoiding taxation both north and south with goods from boston and philly up by the lakes, over ohio or down to new orleans and than up the mississippi- all with english made knifes.
mexico was different.
I didn't know that Spanish Toledo steel was inferior to what the English were making 1770 - 1815.
 
Leaping backwards to the beginning of this very informative thread, it's my belief - based on a lot of research - that knives have been a common trade item since the first whites landed in North America. That said, I also believe that what was meant by "trade knives" in the original question here was the assortment of inexpensive, plain knives similar to today's kitchen knives carried in trader's packs and trappers gear for trading with the Indians (PC = "Native Americans") during the period of western expansion, and including the Fur Trade Era. If I'm correct in those beliefs, then TOW does have some knives (Example: "Roach Belly") that are period correct, as does DGW, Log Cabin, and some other suppliers.
Jeff White makes very nice Trade Knives of both English and French configuration also, but I'm not certain he is still making them.
I'm impressed by some of the knowledge displayed in this thread. Has anybody else looked at James Hanson's "Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook"? or did I simply miss the reference?
Tanglefoot
 
Tanglefoot
I appreciate your enthusiasm and input; thank you for both. I (in NO way) claim to be a historian or an expert in any of this? I only pass on what I've read or gotten in research. I live in Pa. and spend a lot of time in the Lancaster area (famous for the Lancaster county Long rifles). There are a number of places there who have small family run museums that "claim" to have (on display) HA and PC artifacts from of a lot of different periods in history? I take all of that with a grain of salt! I know most of my local history revolves around the Revolutionary War period, not much on the Fur Trade. That occurred far West and not a lot of the information got "Back East" then, except through tall tales and scant few letters or journals brought back by explorers. That all being said, I base my designs on what I interpret them to be through whatever information I can gather. I'm certain that a lot of it is "Hogwash", but I accept it. I wasn't there so I can't say what's accurate and what isn't? Sometimes you DO just have to trust what you hear or see. I do take a lot of my designs from what I saw in those little "Museums." simply because I don't (can't) travel out West to refute the stories. I hope I didn't come off as sounding like I'm trying to dupe anyone? I'm trying to be as honest as I can. I DO NOT knowingly pass on inaccurate information.
I hope my diatribe kind of makes a point? Sorry if it doesn't. Stay in the conversation/loop. I appreciate your input. I'll have a few new knives up for sale soon. Hopefully they pass muster?
God bless:
Two Feathers
PS: I AM one of those Native Americans: and I DO NOT for even one second take offense at being called an Indian!! I think folks these days are getting a little bit TOO carried away with all this PC stuff! Just MHO?
 
[QUOTEMy best guess is probably not, sorry. I think if Hugh Glass had carved his initials in the handle, he probably would have used H.G.not just H. I'm sure there were tons of people who's name started with H? Henry comes to mind. Just mho, lol.
God bless:
Two Feathers ]

I've got a banana tree orchard in Montana I'd like to sell you. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Lobo
Thank you. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual, but this one sailed right past me? I get the inference, but I missed the point! Sorry.
Two Feathers
 
When I was very young man, mid-1960’s, I used to hang around a very old fella named Vic and his machine/blacksmith/weld shop/barn. He was ancient even then, I’d guess late 80’s, maybe 90 as he puttered around the old shed. From time to time, he’d tell me a story about his father ( a officer in the CW, Illinois Calvary, Vic still had is hat, sword and pistol/belt/holster) who lived on the then western frontier and was also a blacksmith/gun repair/farrier by trade. Vic was the last boy born when his Dad was in his late 50’s or so. There was a number of blades blanks lying here and there that Vic told me his Father had made for trade/sale when work was a bit slow, which wasn’t often. But, it also recycled used files and other bits(broken springs) which Vic said there were usually plenty generated in the horseshoe and wagon repair trade. Still had the 3ft diameter grindstone, water operated on which they were made. Most appeared to be large bladed, kitchen, I’d call butcher knives. But, there were several smaller personal knives, daggers, etc. One I fell in love with was what would be called an Arkansas toothpick. Vic told me most of these were made in the early to mid-1800’s by his dad as a young man/apprentice in the blacksmith shop. Cash was tight and a good, sharp knife usually brought cash money. There was always demand for a good knife. Vic passed away, my first year in college, and shortly after a fire burned down the building. I found out about 6 months later, but by then everything had been cleaned up and the farm cleared for a strip mall. Yes, that’s progress, all right.
 
jime444
Thank you for the nice story. Yes... the past seems to be getting consumed by the future and technology. I (personally, being 70...OK 69.75 yrs. old) have seen a lot of that. I don't like it!!!! We need to pass the future on to our upcoming generations. I left the mechanical engineering trade, after 21 years, and became a teacher. I was forced to retire due to health issues, from a stroke. I had a lot of students who didn't have clue about our past. I felt terrible about it! I tried my best to enlighten them. I became a mentor in knife making and leather work to a few. I still run into some of them at the mall, or get the occasional email, text, or phone call asking my advice about something that we spoke of years ago. It does my heart good to know they care enough to be intrigued by our history, and I'm more than a little flattered to know that I made enough of an impact on them for them to spend their time to seek my advice. High school kids usually have more pressing things to do. I see a slight glimmer of hope there? I know I'm not a pinnacle of role models, but I'm hoping that just maybe ONE of those kids will go on to revive some of our past trades and heritage?
I've rambled for long enough. Thank you for adding to my post. Take care.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 
I believe we are talking Biscayne steel, not Toledo, which is more famous. The British we're great at steel, blast furnace, etc. I think a lot of the trade goods we're higher iron content stuff, and a large easy to get to deposit was in Northern Spain at the time. That was a source of wealth for them, and they supplied France and England, others too with their raw material. Also finished product, perhaps where Toledo and others gained fame, I don't know for sure about that. I believe Britain withheld the technology from us for a while so we would purchase through them. The book I referenced goes into a lot of detail. I do know that someone in Lancaster would tend to trade on the coast and would think towards British trade. Where I am in the Ohio River Area you would think French, Indian, then British for trade. Pittsburgh would be the nearest British trading Post, but you could travel West or south and trade with friendly tribes or French before the war.
 
LRB
I'm truly sorry, but I'm getting lost in the mire of information and queries, so I'm not certain what exactly you're trying to say or ask? I've seen your work...VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!! I'd like to try and decipher this conversation, but I'm not sure how to address your statement?
I've been making knives since 1966, I've learned everything I know by trial and error/books, NO ONE to mentor me?
As I stated in a prior post, I'm NO expert or authority in this area, but I do my best to produce knives true to the period. If there's issues with my work, please let me know.I'm doing a batch of Nessmuks right now. I just finished a Scapler for a friend. I'll attach a few pics. It's NOT for sale (right now). If the guy decides he doesn't want it then I'll probably put it up.
God bless:
Two Feathers
 

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As I said. Probably a good working knife, but a scalper it is not. The Spanish notch would put it from the southwest. Ricasso's are rarely found, but when they show up it is usually on a sword, so it cannot be said a ricasso is always wrong. The common scalper blades were relatively thin with a blended grind from tang into blade, then distal tapered to the point. Tapered tangs were more common than not, and steel thicker than 1/8" would be rare and on a large blade. A scalper would not have curly maple slabs, unless the owner went to the trouble to change the original grip of commonly beechwood. I would put your scalper shown there at likely early to mid 19th c. overall, and locally made rather than imported. Nessmuks don't show up until around 1875/1880. Russell has a skinner much like a Nessmuk, but longer in general, and I don't know when they came about. Most all makers, even some of the big names, end up making knives that don't pass stringent HC/PC inspection. I have and still would myself on some types, but if the customer wants HC/PC, I do the best I can to meet the needs. Which is probably not always enough.
 
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