What period would the 'trade knives' fit in to?

[satx78247]

Actually I was NOT disagreeing with Wick's comment. - In point of fact, he brought up something that I had NOT even thought of.
(Charles E. Dawkins MAY have been nothing more than a wholesaler to other businesses.)

Btw, Captain Shreve's Port is in western LOUISIANA, rather than Texas. - It's now called SHREVEPORT & was the major riverboat cargo on/off loading port, owned by CPT Shreve, as well as a "jumping off point" to TX by 1820.

The man, who had a knife factory, was Noah Smithwick of San Felipe, TX. - I have no idea where he was buying his steel for blades.
(Was he making steel or importing it? - I simply don't know that answer.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

Addenda to the above: Noah Smithwick's factory MAY or MAY NOT have made "trade knives" (I simply don't know what all the goods were, that he was making at his factory.).
We do know that he made MANY copies of COL Jim Bowie's famous fighting knife, including at least one COPY for COL Bowie's own use.

yours, satx

 

[crockett]

Well interesting information no matter what type of knives he made, all new to me. I'm just guessing but trade knives were cheap end merchandise, if it was a small 3 man shop I'm wondering if better quality wares were made.

 

[satx78247]

IF I claimed anything of that sort, I would be making a "SWAG" & perhaps simply a "WAG". - We DO know that Smithwick made many COPIES of COL Bowie's famous knife, including one for Bowie himself.
(I wonder if COL Bowie was carrying a COPY at The Siege of the Alamo Fortress?)

yours, satx

 

[buffcreekforge]

I would echo the idea that while Britain was not popular after the Revolution, Americans were a pragmatic lot. Britain was the "World's Workshop" in the era. Not buying British products would be as difficult as not buying Chinese made products today - they were nearly impossible to avoid in the market. Additionally, most folks don't realize that after the Revolution the British flooded America with cheap, high-quality merchandise in an effort to further injure American manufacturing (we could not compete at price point - people buy the cheapest product regardless of its country of origin. Jefferson's efforts to avoid becoming involved in the wars between Britain and France on the continent made Americans a "nutcrackered neutral". He mistakenly believed the Europeans "needed" American trade and created the infamous Embargo Act, Macon's Bill #2, and the Non-Intercourse Act essentially ending trade with Europe. The real effect was to nearly destroy New England's economy and the net cost to America was double that of war. British and French blades and products would have been the norm until about 1807 or so.

 

I may see if I can get the SAPL to order the book through "ILL", as I'd sooner not have to buy it.

Actually, I was "confusing" nothing whatever. - I'm simply "reporting" what Muslima told me about her family. - I find "the doings" of an extended family, that has been involved in The Silk Road caravanning business for many centuries, to be "of interest".
Fyi, Muslima & I have been friends since 1990 & often ate dinner together, while we worked in the same building & talked about "shared interests".
(She too is interested in "oral history", Beringia & "early migrations" to/from Asia & The Americas.)

I "think I remember" that she said that her family's business was in Moron, Mongolia when the Japanese Army drove out or killed everyone who opposed the "Japanese-led" (read: Japanese DOMINATED) "Pan-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere".
(I suspect that most every family has "oft-repeated family stories", as our tribe always "bores the children" with stories of "The Long Walk to Texas" in 1818-1819. Muslima "grew up on" her family stories of "fleeing to India, just ahead of the cruel Japanese Army". - Fwiw, how much of any "old family story" is REALLY historically accurate is "questionable", at best. = When I was a child, about 60 years ago, "we kids" used to "roll our eyes" when told for the hundredth time about "being cold & hungry, while walking to Texas" & "fleeing from the Army's 'hideous monsters', who killed Indians without mercy".)

yours, satx

Okay, what am I missing? What does this have to do with "Trade Knives" or is this just a case of ADHD? It seems that every topic reminds you of "something else"?

 

[Elnathan]

He was responding to me. Would it have killed you to have just read the thread instead of getting aggressive? :youcrazy:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Not to ruffle feathers all around but the whole scalping post was moved to the "Non-Muzzleloading" Forum under the title "Scalping", I assume by the moderators, since it'd gotten totally away from the OP's original question about 'trade knife' periods. This is no knock from me, as I'm just as bad about wandering off down some rabbit warren instead of staying with a post's original direction.

 

[colmoultrie]

Yes, get two history teachers together, and we'll indicate the entire forest - and then pick out two or three of our favorite trees and worry at them like beavers. :grin:
I like your analogy to trade w/China today. Americans in the Confederation, Federalist, and Jeffersonian eras generally disliked England and most things English, but English cutlery, gun locks, crockery, steel, textiles, and a host of other products were cheap, high quality, and available in large quantities. Just as Chinese production today kills American jobs in exchange for cheap products, the British trade did that until the Napoleonic Wars. Most Americans then, like most Americans today, generally voted with their pocketbooks.

Funny thing about the Non-Intercourse Act, I never have any trouble getting teenage boys to remember that one..... :idunno:

 

[satx78247]

RotflmRao!

yours, satx

 

[laufer]

Given how UNPOPULAR that GB was with the Spanish & French citizens (and after AWI, with many of the American patriots) of early LA, IF Dawkins was importing (rather than manufacturing) knives, I would GUESS that they didn't come from the UK.
...

yours, satx

politics aside, business was done with english manufactured supply and products much more than french or spanish because after the end of french and indian wars it was the almost the only option, and it was better quality and larger quantity than competition. legal trade by establishmed traders and illegal trade by smaller traders avoiding taxation both north and south with goods from boston and philly up by the lakes, over ohio or down to new orleans and than up the mississippi- all with english made knifes.
mexico was different.

 

[buffcreekforge]

The mask is off! :surrender: I am indeed a history teacher. I have more useless information living between my ears than will ever be expressed! The Non-Intercourse Act is indeed an easy one to get students to remember - at least the name. Just shows what happens when you get someone involved in a discussion that has had a bit too much "book larnin'".

I remain your humble servant,

Just Dave

 

[satx78247]

OH NO!!! - Not another history teacher!
(Fwiw, I too teach a course now & again, in the history of the "AmerIndians", for a local community college.)

yours, satx

 

[Two Feathers]

Everybody likes a fancy knife, rather than the plain, common, and historically correct ones, maybe. I honestly don't know---I've gone to rendezvous where I've seen tables surrounded by customers and onlookers full of custom knives that are pure fantasy. Meanwhile noboy's giving a second glance (except me and guys like me) to vendors with correct scalpers, butchers, & cartouche knives. :idunno:

To each his own. While I admire the craftsmanship that goes into a fancy damascus-bladed knife with curly maple scales, I'll stick to my plain trade knives. I carry either a five-pin butcher or a common scalper. They do everything I'd ever ask of a knife.

Rod

Hi Rod
I used to tie flies for fishing and a friend said "Flies are for catching fishermen, NOT fish?"
I think; supposedly PC knives, fall into that category too? I just joined this forum about 4 months ago and I'm a knife maker. I specialize (or try to) in PC knives. You can see some of my work in the edged weapons forum. I'm enjoying your "teachings" here. I can use all the historical data I can get. Thank you, and thank you for your time and links.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Lobo]

A Spanish Trade knife with buffalo horn handle

 

[Black Hand]

Hi Rod
I used to tie flies for fishing and a friend said "Flies are for catching fishermen, NOT fish?"
I think; supposedly PC knives, fall into that category too? I just joined this forum about 4 months ago and I'm a knife maker. I specialize (or try to) in PC knives. You can see some of my work in the edged weapons forum. I'm enjoying your "teachings" here. I can use all the historical data I can get. Thank you, and thank you for your time and links.
God bless:
Two Feathers

We have a very good idea as to what period knives looked like in the periods of interest. That said, the vast majority of the knives offered for sale today are nowhere close - they are, as you implied, created to catch the eye rather that replicate knives of the period and many others fail miserably to achieve even this exceptionally low bar. Just a hint, they weren't crude, unpolished blades with a modern blade profile and poorly-defined/uneven bevels stuck between 2 pieces of curly maple with a few random pins and little/no shaping of the handle scales.

 

[Lobo]

Bone handled Riflemans knife

 

[Black Hand]

Friction-folder with horn handle and 2 ball-end scalpers I made.

Trade scalper with diamond-profile handle.

 

[Lobo]

Most times the knives carried and used everyday were plain but functional

 

[Lobo]

The owner of this old knife thought enough of it to carve his initial on it....Hugh Glass??