What projectile should I use?

[Sharp Shooter]

Ok, new topic here. So I will be hunting elk, large mule deer, and some antelope and whitetails. I will be using my 58cal Renegade. I live and hunt in Colorado.

My options are:
525gr Hornady Great Plains
580gr Maxi-Ball
.570 Hornady Roundball

None of my charges are below 100gr FFG.


I want to be able to take a 100yd shot at an elk if I need and know it's going down. So tell me what you think I should shoot and why. Im thinking I want to shoot a conical for elk and mule deer since they are bigger and will be out there a little farther. For whitetail or antelope the roundball since the antelope are small and the whitetail are close.

Opinions are welcome but I dont want to hear that traditional stuff. I like it but not everything needs to be traditional.

Thanks
:wink:

 

[Little Wattsy]

I dont have the blood on my hands to be called an expert but I would favor the Hornady. You should get the best trajectory and the greatest BC for what thats worth. You get it in the HPHA and as it mushrooms from both ends THAT makes a nice hole! Out to 75 yards peobably no differance beyond that, and you have the possiblity of THAT where you will be hunting, then again the Hornady will edge out on preformance. Now just my opinion...Why switch from critter to critter if "IT" is working..I would pick the best load and stick with it,

 

[Stumpkiller]

I use a round ball for all m/l rifle work. Don't have the pleasures of elk but if I happened into an elk hunt I'd use the round ball.

It's not an efficient projectile, but that's why I hunt with muzzleloaders to begin with - because they are more of a challenge and more sport.

 

[tg]

I would not hesitate to use the PRB in your situation the conicals offer little advantage except on paper a well placed ball will do the job quite nicely, many use the conicals when they do not really give any particular edge over the ball simply because they 'think' that the bullet is better.

"Opinions are welcome but I dont want to hear that traditional stuff."

Your choice, there are some forums that are geared toward the modern bullets, you will probably get a lot of pro conical imput from these as most who hang out there have no experience with thePRB.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

348 or 405 grain powerbelt will do.

:thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

This forum long ago established a policy that lead conicals are acceptable for discussion, so you're whipping a dead horse. If that's changed, my bad. If it hasn't, his question is fair and reasonable. Then who's bad is it?

 

[jtmattison]

Opinions are welcome but I dont want to hear that traditional stuff.

Here we go!

HD

 

[cptleo1]

I think with 100+ gr loads, recoil with a 580 gr bullet may become an issue with the Renegade.

I would shoot all three and see which you like the best.

You have what 6 months to see what works best in your rifle.

I feel iron sights are more of a limiting factor than bullet style.

How far away can you hit a coffee can 5 out 5 while standing on you own two feet @ 10,000 ft elevation ?

 

[paulvallandigham]

No, we aren't going there. At least at this point, I am no longer going to give advice to Mr. Sharp Shooter on anything. I think he is in the wrong place, and he knows it. The way to handle people like him is to ignore him. He has worn out his good welcome, as far as I am concerned. RBs are traditional, whether he wants to acknowledge it or not.

Minie balls show up in the late 18th century, but you don't see true conicals( grease grooves, flat base, etc.) until midway through the 19th century. That would be the 1840s and '50s. By that time We had been through the Revolution, the War of 1812, the Lewis & Clark Expedition had mapped the way west, the fur trade had come and gone, the rendezvous for the trappers had ended, and a new type of firearm using percussion caps was gaining popularity, as were revolvers, instead of pistols and pepperbox pistols. We had been through the Secession debates, and were about to enter a War with Mexico that ended with us annexing Texas, parts of New Mexico, Arizona, and everything North, as well as California. Gold would be found at the end of the 1840s, and the great migration West would take place beginning in 1849.

Conicals are okay to discuss here because they do fit in before the American Civil War in 1861-65. That is the cutoff date, as I understand it for this forum. No objects to discussions of lead conicals. But, considering how long BP rifles had been around, and smoothbores even longer, suggesting that talking about RBs is wrong here, or insisting about talking about some of these modern designed wonders is, IMHO, out of line. Rude, too. There are other forums for Mr. Sharp Shooter to visit and feel much more comfortable about.

 

[gmww]

I think with 100+ gr loads, recoil with a 580 gr bullet may become an issue with the Renegade.

I would shoot all three and see which you like the best.

You have what 6 months to see what works best in your rifle.

I feel iron sights are more of a limiting factor than bullet style.

How far away can you hit a coffee can 5 out 5 while standing on you own two feet @ 10,000 ft elevation ?

I agree. See what you can come up with for an accurate load. I would normally lean towards the heavier conical if distance was a factor but if it don't shoot accurate enough then why bother. I would prefer to hit accurately then not at all.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I think with 100+ gr loads, recoil with a 580 gr bullet may become an issue with the Renegade.

I would shoot all three and see which you like the best.

You have what 6 months to see what works best in your rifle.

I feel iron sights are more of a limiting factor than bullet style.

How far away can you hit a coffee can 5 out 5 while standing on you own two feet @ 10,000 ft elevation ?

I agree. See what you can come up with for an accurate load. I would normally lean towards the heavier conical if distance was a factor but if it don't shoot accurate enough then why bother. I would prefer to hit accurately then not at all.

Yep, a 285 grain hornady great plains gives me 2 1/2" groups @ 100 yards in my .45 while a 225 grain powerbelt is under 1" @ 100 with the same powder charge. I would prefer a PRB but due to weight limits, its not legal. I go for the most accurate projectile in my .45
My .50cals and .54's all shoot PRB.

 

[Runner]

Yes, there are reasonable reasons to use conicals in todays world. No, there is no reason to diss tradition on the best traditional site on the net. I'm with Paul on this one!

 

[BrownBear]

I agree about the traditional, but all lead conicals are also traditional, according to the guidelines for this great site. In fact, I bet that within the period of history allowed by this site there were more conicals, aka minies, than round balls shot through 58 caliber rifles.

He had a couple of people dumping brown stuff in his hat because they happen to prefer round balls. He may have used to holy "traditional" word erroniously in trying to stick up for himself, but he was nonetheless right to stick to his guns.

 

[Hamourkiller]

I would use the roundball because of the accuracy issues.
I would aquire a cronograph and get my roundball up to 1800 fps for trajectery and wind deflection concerns. 1800 fps will get you a flat trajectery to 150yds or so.
For Mule deer you can stay with the pure lead ball and get all the penetration you can use.
On the Elk you can go with a wheel weight or lino type alloy for that extra penetration.

I have fired the mini balls from a .58 and they are quite a handfull in the recoil department, but that is not why I stopped shooting them. I stopped because the accuracy was not there compared to the roundball from my TC and GM barrels.

The GM .58 is like radar controlled with the Hornaday RB, .018 pillow ticking lubed with wonderlube or hoppes #9 plus, over powder felt wad lubed with wonderlube and 120grs KIK 2F. This is right at 1800 fps from my ohler cronograph. Plus the recoil is starting to get noticible. Strange thing is the more powder I used the more accurate the thing shot!

So stoke that TC up with some stout loads of you favorite BP and the roundball. Then go have some fun.

 

[Little Wattsy]

No, we aren't going there. At least at this point, I am no longer going to give advice to Mr. Sharp Shooter on anything. I think he is in the wrong place, and he knows it. The way to handle people like him is to ignore him. He has worn out his good welcome, as far as I am concerned. RBs are traditional, whether he wants to acknowledge it or not.

Minie balls show up in the late 18th century, but you don't see true conicals( grease grooves, flat base, etc.) until midway through the 19th century. That would be the 1840s and '50s. By that time We had been through the Revolution, the War of 1812, the Lewis & Clark Expedition had mapped the way west, the fur trade had come and gone, the rendezvous for the trappers had ended, and a new type of firearm using percussion caps was gaining popularity, as were revolvers, instead of pistols and pepperbox pistols. We had been through the Secession debates, and were about to enter a War with Mexico that ended with us annexing Texas, parts of New Mexico, Arizona, and everything North, as well as California. Gold would be found at the end of the 1840s, and the great migration West would take place beginning in 1849.

Conicals are okay to discuss here because they do fit in before the American Civil War in 1861-65. That is the cutoff date, as I understand it for this forum. No objects to discussions of lead conicals. But, considering how long BP rifles had been around, and smoothbores even longer, suggesting that talking about RBs is wrong here, or insisting about talking about some of these modern designed wonders is, IMHO, out of line. Rude, too. There are other forums for Mr. Sharp Shooter to visit and feel much more comfortable about.

With all due respect I chose to interperate the question differantly in that in the past I too wanted to know what worked BEST NOT what was most pure. RB are fun, cool, and deadly true. Conicals should out preform in given circumstance. I have had people tell me that RB's are "the only way to fly" NOT because they are better but because in the opinion of that indivdual they were more PC. ANYWAY I understood the question to be simply whats best logically VS whats more PC emotionally. There was no question re:sabots, inlines, or hyper 1:18 twist rates. :v

 

[Sharp Shooter]

All I am saying is I dont want to hear people saying conicals are not PC so dont use them. That is all. I greatly favor traditional muzzleloading. I think it is awesome. I just dont want to be put down because I shoot conicals to. Sorry if you guys got the wrong meaning.

We need to face the facts. Roundballs are awesome but conicals can outperform them.

Thanks to those who answered my question and gave me a true opinion. I appreciate it!

Once again im sorry if I offended you. I did not mean to. Hope you understand what I mean now.

 

[tg]

" all lead conicals are also traditional, according to the guidelines for this great site."

That is interestimg as most of the comicals used today were developed/designed in the 20th or 21st century, those who want to use them are well withing their rights to do so just don't try to connect them with the bullets of the past, if they are traditional then so are the bolt action *&^line guns because there are examples of that type of ignition in the 18th century, the same standards muct apply to all aspects of the sport
There is an obvious loophole here allowing the topics of modern bullets to be fair fodder, but it does not apply to the guns themselves, I guess that is what makes it such a great forum, something for everyone under the guise ot "tradition"

 

[gmww]

Just another equation you might consider. I believe Co. has a regulation on the size of a conical. It's been a bunch of years since I've hunted there so I wont even try to quote it. There are a number of members here from Co. that could.

 

[BrownBear]

Yup. Facts of life. Beat on Claude if you want, but don't beat up individuals because they're using gear that's perfectly fine with the site owner.

Think of in the same spirit as using Walmart pillow ticking rather than homespsun for patches. Or a computer to talk about traditional muzzleloading.

I used to use lots of cast conicals but have come around to using nothing but round balls. My choice and not yours, and not due to anything you could say. If folks are going to switch to round balls it will be because they want rather than being criticized for using something else. You probably get your back up when people criticize you, don't you? Even if they're "right?" Same here.

Like I said. In 58 caliber such as started this post, conicals were probably the single most PC bullet you could use. If they're a different shape today, so what. I doubt the most PC round ball shooter on the boards is using homespun rather than Walmart pillowticking for their patches. Should I get my nose out of joint for such sloppy behavior?

 

[Sharp Shooter]

Here in Co the rule is the length of your conical cant exceed twice the diameter of the conical. I