What projectile should I use?

[Kentuckywindage]

:yakyak:

 

[tg]

"See? My bullet fits the time period we are allowed"

only in general appearance, I wonder how the ballistic and terminal effects compare and it is only by chance they even look similar as none of the bullet makers today claim and connection to the bullets of the past in there designs, but if it makes you feel good put on the rubber nose and the big shoes and wave it in the air as you exit the VW.Grasping at straws is all one can do to try and validate the new bullets as being in any way traditional.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

Mini Cooper, We find that it performs better than the VW. :hatsoff:

 

[Idaho Ron]

tg,
I am just trying to find out where I stand. I ask a question and I am singled out as a guy with a mission to bring down the site.
A lot of guys on this forum shoot TC, and I shoot TC. You say,
"I would think most consider most of the TC sidelock traditional, that one made for pellets is another story the TC guns were made with the guns of the past in mind, the modern bullets were not they are a result of moder research, design and development and are far ahead of the period type"

I own TC Renegades. They are not a copy of any PC gun. Two of my guns are Stainless steel Green Mountain barrels. One is a 45 with a 1-18 twist.
Yes I shoot conicals, and yes I even shoot a 459-405-HB bullet in my 45. It is a copy of the 1873 trap door bullet.
With all that out in the open if the color of my barrel and the look of my lead bothers some of the people on this board I am sorry I offend you.
I have not started any argument or called anyone names, or talked negatively about anyone or their style of shooting or hunting.
It was my goal to learn other styles of shooting and hunting, and learn more about the guns, also to help when I can because of my hunting and shooting background. If the color of my guns and the look of my lead is offending to the point that it is a problem for the forum, then if I am asked by Claude to leave I will leave. If I did not follow the rules of the forum I am sorry. I didn't do so in hate or anger.
Ron

 

[Stumpkiller]

We try to be accomidating here. What one person see as traditional another sees as modern technology. We set our own bars. By opening the forum to the Civil War era we allow discussion of solid lead "non-round" projectiles. Whether any were used by civilians for hunting or not is another debatable point.

If Kentuckywindage wants to hunt elk with a 17 pound Parrot projectile I guess he's allowed, though I think the plastic on the smaller image he shows takes it out or traditional territory. :grin:

Provided it's used in a side-lock, or even matchlock or fuse lit hand cannon we're good with any shape of all lead projectile.

Sadly, if we were exclusively retro tech to the custom rifles and guns necessary to be truly authentic we'd be too exclusive a club to get many newcomers. A truly authentic rifle might run you $10,000 and include a forged iron barrel and no cast parts in the lock.

So, we welcome the coil spring and adjustable sight . . . but encourage members to step backwards more than forwards.

The old saws like "you need to knock your fillings out and die before age 54 to be truly traditional" are fine if that's what it takes for you. I have no problem defining how much traditional I can include in my equipment. What touches the animal is an important part of it for me. Traditional is like pornography: "I know it when I see it". Sidelocks make it easy to set one "pass" test that everyone can recognize. Primers intended for centerfire cartridges incorporated into a closed ignition system are examples of a "fail" test. But there is an awful lot of gray area.

Take a step back and look at what you are reading this on. Be thankful we can shed some of this technology and get back to simpler times.

If the staff seems to be unfair or irratic in what we cut or chop, oh well. We're only human and we all have different opinions of traditional, too.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

PLASTIC?!!! Why, thats just some highly polished bone!

Its not traditional, but its all my Douglas barrel will shoot. I have to follow my state rules, so that parrot bullet goes down the bore when i have a deer tag in my pocket.

Although it will more than likely stay home due to the new Great Plains rifle :grin:

When it comes to hunting projectiles, i think its up the the shooter to decide what he or she wants to use. I've shot both at game, so i know where my limits are when i am loaded with PRB.

Be nice guys, Theres no point into getting into arguments over something as simple as a bullet.
:hatsoff:

 

[Greenmtnboy]

We try to be accomidating here. What one person see as traditional another sees as modern technology. We set our own bars. By opening the forum to the Civil War era we allow discussion of solid lead "non-round" projectiles. Whether any were used by civilians for hunting or not is another debatable point.

If Kentuckywindage wants to hunt elk with a 17 pound Parrot projectile I guess he's allowed, though I think the plastic on the smaller image he shows takes it out or traditional territory. :grin:

Provided it's used in a side-lock, or even matchlock or fuse lit hand cannon we're good with any shape of all lead projectile.

Sadly, if we were exclusively retro tech to the custom rifles and guns necessary to be truly authentic we'd be too exclusive a club to get many newcomers. A truly authentic rifle might run you $10,000 and include a forged iron barrel and no cast parts in the lock.

So, we welcome the coil spring and adjustable sight . . . but encourage members to step backwards more than forwards.

The old saws like "you need to knock your fillings out and die before age 54 to be truly traditional" are fine if that's what it takes for you. I have no problem defining how much traditional I can include in my equipment. What touches the animal is an important part of it for me. Traditional is like pornography: "I know it when I see it". Sidelocks make it easy to set one "pass" test that everyone can recognize. Primers intended for centerfire cartridges incorporated into a closed ignition system are examples of a "fail" test. But there is an awful lot of gray area.

Take a step back and look at what you are reading this on. Be thankful we can shed some of this technology and get back to simpler times.

If the staff seems to be unfair or irratic in what we cut or chop, oh well. We're only human and we all have different opinions of traditional, too.

:bow: :bow:

 

[Runner]

Very well said!

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I kinda figured that, I am tinkering with a 45 cal Rigby, once I pull my next buck tag I gonna' go gunnin' for one of thos above treeline timber bucks

 

[tg]

I am just saying to look to the form amd function when calling something traditional, a TC sidelock is similar in forum (style and function (it works the same way) as the originals,no advantage, take a new high tech bullet and compare its performance to what was available in the past(if the period type were so good why don't they make more of them now?)It is not an issue of the right to use anything, just an issue of keeping the term traditional within the realm of reality or there will soon be no distinction between the old and the new,if a conical is a conical and a peep is a peep then a ML is a ML and the modern bolt action types are traditional,you can't have both ends of the carrot, and before someone brings it up for the umoteenth time...I would much rather hang alone and know I died in good company.

 

[Runner]

Darned straight! Well said!

 

[Sharp Shooter]

So nobody is mad at me anymore?

 

[tg]

Don't think anyone ever was mad, just trying to maintain a definition of traditional that will help keep the old and new from being one and the same.

 

[Idaho Ron]

sharp shooter, you should try some paper patched bullets. If your twist is fast enough it makes for a very accurate load. The bullet I have been toying with in my 50 is a 500 S&W bullet poured from a Lee mould. They come out at .501 and I run them through a .501 sizer then paper patch them and run them through the .501 sizer again. They are wicked accurate and have the energy potential to take elk NO problem. I am not guessing about their ability to take elk. I have shot 18 elk my self. Some guys give opinions on what "should" kill elk but have never actually done it. Ron

 

[tg]

I know that a .490 ball will kill elk and I know of several other who have used this to kill Elk, it is on the light side and probably is best used at sub 50 yds,around here a 25 yd shot is not uncommon, the .54.58 are used more often and carry a bigger whack, but sub 100 yds is still a good idea sub 75 is better, many sucsessfull RB Elk hunters think in terms of archery plus a few yards, a lot depends on where and how you hunt and the average range that is anticipated, If I were to hunt Elk wher the shots would likely be 100 yds or a bit more I would use a .62 rifle,or try to find a period type bullet in a .54-.58 most likely the .62 ball it just seems more muzzleloadery to me.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I know that a .490 ball will kill elk and I know of several other who have used this to kill Elk, it is on the light side and probably is best used at sub 50 yds,around here a 25 yd shot is not uncommon, the .54.58 are used more often and carry a bigger whack, but sub 100 yds is still a good idea sub 75 is better, many sucsessfull RB Elk hunters think in terms of archery plus a few yards, a lot depends on where and how you hunt and the average range that is anticipated, If I were to hunt Elk wher the shots would likely be 100 yds or a bit more I would use a .62 rifle,or try to find a period type bullet in a .54-.58 most likely the .62 ball it just seems more muzzleloadery to me.

Hay TG, CoyoteJoe and I have killed many elk with 50 and 54 RB out to 100yrds.
I am first and fore most a timber hunter but out here in CO 100yrds is a common shot distance.
50 cal is plenty good for elk I switched to a 54 to get the best of both worlds, down range ballistics with ausom thumpability.
Any elk we have doubled lunged with a 50 or a 54 has died in less than two min.
The last elk I killed with my 50 was at 110 yrds doublelung, went through both lungs and stoped in the hide on the other side.
Like I was saying before the bigger the ball the bigger the rainbow and without ajustable sites the rainbow on a 62 RB at 100 yrds is to much with a normal load of 100grns of ffg.
To get that basketball shooting flat your talking a huge amount of recoil which translates to flinching and missing.
IMHO it's better to shoot a ball you can thred a needle with out to 100yrds than to think bigger is better.
Any way thats from a twenty year elk guide and elk hunter.
here are a couple pics of 100yrd RB elk
Remember it's not size of bullet it's shot placement.
All were doublelunged all died in two min or less all shot with a 50 RB all at 100yrds, just over, just under

 

[tg]

Nice critters there, can't argue about the .50 being good at the longer ranges, I always sugest closer shots so to cover all the potential levels of experience of shooters.People shooting farther than their ability has been one of the main reasons for lost animals that I have seen, no matter what the projectile.

 

[Stumpkiller]

So nobody is mad at me anymore?

Heck. Don't confuse spirited debate with anger.

If you're not passionate about your pursuits . . . why bother?

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Nice critters there, can't argue about the .50 being good at the longer ranges, I always sugest closer shots so to cover all the potential levels of experience of shooters.People shooting farther than their ability has been one of the main reasons for lost animals that I have seen, no matter what the projectile.

Absoutly :bow:
Joe and I shoot, shoot, than shoot some more to make sure of ourselves and our rifles.

 

[Roy]

To get that basketball shooting flat your talking a huge amount of recoil which translates to flinching and missing.

Stock design comes into play on that. I double charged a .62 I had once :redface: ... It shoved me but it didn't hurt. And I'm a wimp when it comes to recoil... gun weighed right at 8 lbs. so it wasn't overly heavy.

Great pics once again :thumbsup: