what to use instead of lead balls

[Griz44Mag]

This is a question related to your issue for others that may chime in. Would a lead free solder be doable in casting your own? Would it be too light in weight?
Larry

AIUI - lead free solder is 75-80% tin.
Density of lead is 11.35 and the density of tin is 5.75 - so a 177gr lead ball cast in tin would weigh 90gr. (51%)

 

[Griz44Mag]

Can you pull a bismuth ball? I would be reluctant to stuff anything down my bore that i cannot pull out, including steel...here's an idea though...how about some modern sabots? Don't they make non-toxic saboted conicals? Throw away the plastic sabot and use a patch..or just use the sabot.

Just remember, our guns are designed for lead and soft materials only...other metals could damage your rifling...i am not sure how much using a patch or sabot mitigates this factor when using other metals...just a thought..

Interesting question. Bismuth is brittle and if you screwed an extractor into it it would likely split. best bet would be to blow it out using a CO2 blaster or high pressure compressed air.
I have tested the bismuth alloy at 19 BH which is hard but not hard enough to damage a barrel - as I have shot 24+ hardness lead from my 308 and 5.56 both. That said - the alloy was mostly lead and antimony and is still pliable - a screw into that would not split the projectile.

 

[Griz44Mag]

For the OP - instead of a round ball and considering you have a 1:48 twist barrel you might consider using a Lee REAL bullet to get the extra weight and wallop.
I shoot them in my 1:48 guns and get good accuracy from them.
A 50 cal REAL in lead weighs 320 grains so in Bismuth it should weigh 273 grains - which would give you a lot more energy delivered than even a lead round ball.

 

[Okie Hog]

i have a standing invitation to hunt hogs on a cousin's ranch in CA. In the event i ever decide to hunt there i'll be using the excellent Barnes 225 grain .429 XPB bullet in a crush rib sabot:


XPB Pistol - Barnes Bullets

 

[Griz44Mag]

i have a standing invitation to hunt hogs on a cousin's ranch in CA. In the event i ever decide to hunt there i'll be using the excellent Barnes 225 grain .429 XPB bullet in a crush rib sabot:

OHHHHHH MY!!!!!
We are not allowed to talk of such atrocities as this - and putting a link as well - bad ju-ju........

 

[deerstalkert]

i have a standing invitation to hunt hogs on a cousin's ranch in CA. In the event i ever decide to hunt there i'll be using the excellent Barnes 225 grain .429 XPB bullet in a crush rib sabot:


XPB Pistol - Barnes Bullets

hey there Cousin, remember this looooooong lost cuz when you decide to go hunt. i just might put aside my boycott of California for a hog hunt!
was always too busy for one when i lived there. I was friends with a fellow had a publishing company and he let me hunt deer on his Antelope Valley ranch. i always filled my tag in the first 4 hours so i could squeeze out the time.

 

[William O.]

One of the members here answered the question of using non !ead round ball in muzzleloaders some time ago. He used brass RB that were undersized, patched and lubed. They were of course lighter than their lead counterparts but gave good accuracy and terminal performance. He recovered at least one of the bullets after downing a deer with it and the ball was virtually unchanged. I'll search and try to find it.

 

[Woody Morgan]

hey there Cousin, remember this looooooong lost cuz when you decide to go hunt. i just might put aside my boycott of California for a hog hunt!
was always too busy for one when i lived there. I was friends with a fellow had a publishing company and he let me hunt deer on his Antelope Valley ranch. i always filled my tag in the first 4 hours so i could squeeze out the time.

Oh suuuure. California is ok when you want something from it.
Typical Calibasher.

wm

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

One of the members here answered the question of using non !ead round ball in muzzleloaders some time ago. He used brass RB that were undersized, patched and lubed. They were of course lighter than their lead counterparts but gave good accuracy and terminal performance. He recovered at least one of the bullets after downing a deer with it and the ball was virtually unchanged. I'll search and try to find it.

I'm not the one that posted, but I have been trying to source 12.5mm (0.492) brass or copper RB from manufacturers from the communist land overseas. Not a common size and to have it produced and shipped unless in large quantities would be cost-prohibitive. Many suppliers are not even interested in replying back.

 

[William O.]

I'm not the one that posted, but I have been trying to source 12.5mm (0.492) brass or copper RB from manufacturers from the communist land overseas. Not a common size and to have it produced and shipped unless in large quantities would be cost-prohibitive. Many suppliers are not even interested in replying back.

Yes, I'm trying to find that info now. He found a company that produced both brass and copper balls and you could buy just a few at a time. I do not remember what sizes he found or the caliber his rifle was so no promises.

 

[jim mencken]

thanks for all advice but after checking cali regs ihave decided till i move back to america . california rules andregs are more than i want to deal with. again thanks to all

 

[William O.]

Here is what I found;

https://www.rotometals.com/lead-free-bullet-casting-alloy-bismuth-based/
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Roundballs/products/704/
Originally researched and conducted by Roundball.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/non-lead-projectiles-for-hunting.89247/
Given the above action taken today, I was asked to repost this on another forum, thought it might be of interest here again as well, for anyone needing to consider non-lead projectiles.
I did some research, range testing, and took a deer last year using a solid brass ball in my .58cal Early Virginia....here are the details...somewhat lengthy:
=================================================
Gun
SIZE TESTING APPROACH
Sized 20 with steel Dial Calipers, 3-4 different axis measurements per ball.
Sizes seemed identical no matter which way I tried to measure them.
I even then locked the dial caliper jaws open at .5625" and repeatedly picked up & dropped the balls through the jaws knowing they'd be going through on a different axis each time.
None ever hung up, further substantiating the consistent measurements, nothing out of round, etc.

WEIGHT TESTING APPROACH
Weighing 20 of them they all came in just about perfectly at 201 grains.
A couple were 200.8 grains, a couple were 201.3 grains, the rest dead on 201 grains.
Only a fraction of a grain variance which is virtually no weight variance at all, and far more consistent than typical lead balls.

MY INITIAL TEST SUMMARY
Extremely high quality / consistent brass balls in both size & weight.
Basically .562" round balls at 201 grains.
No question that these solid brass balls will pose no risk in loading & fitting my .58cal/.580" bore.
Essentially a 200grn projectile, it falls between a .50cal/175 and .54cal/225 in ball weight.
Plus, with the added benefit of a larger frontal area at .562" diameter I’m confident that it'll get the job done on an eastern whitetail at typical woods distances.

All that remains is to test powder charge & patch thickness for an accurate deer hunting load.
This should turn out to be a readily available, high quality, non-toxic PRB out of a .58cal.

=================================================
RANGE REPORT - JULY 12, 2012
.58cal Non-Toxic Brass Balls as PRB's in place of lead PRBs

EQUIPMENT
TVM Early Virginia
Rice 38" D-weight .58cal x 1:72" x .016" round bottom grooves;
Chambers Deluxe Siler / Davis DST;
Sights previously zeroed at 50yds for 100grn Goex 2F PRB deer load;

NON-TOXIC BRASS BALL TEST USING SAME SIGHTS / SAME SIGHT PICTURE
Goex 4F prime
Goex 2F main
.62cal Duro-Felt OP wad, lubed with NL1000
.028" Cotton Duck patch, lubed with NL1000
.5625" Solid Brass Ball from 'Online Metals'
Weight = 201 grains

TESTS CONDUCTED FROM BENCH REST
100grns Goex 2F = 1+1/4" ragged hole at 50yds...POI=dead center
MV=1367 fps

120grns Goex 2F = 2" group at 50yds...POI=1.5" above dead center
MV=1611 fps

FINDINGS / CONCLUSIONS
An outstanding non-toxic PRB substitute;
Zero loading and shooting problems;
Extremely accurate & consistent...easily as much, if not more so than lead balls;
Significant penetration, traveling through 21" of tightly packed / shredded rubber mulch;
Recovered balls showed zero damage what-so-ever;
Recovered balls had zero change in ball dimensions, verified with calipers;
Balls can be reused if captured in a medium like this to cut down costs;

I hope to get a deer with it this fall for some first hand field results.
But based on my experiences, I have no doubts this non-toxic PRB sub will get it done.

So if states continue to ban the use of lead projectiles in various hunting areas, know that at least one very viable alternative is readily available in the form of solid brass balls for the .58cal.
Considering that...AND the proven outstanding ragged hole accuracy for weekend practice shooting using penny apiece 9/16" marbles out of a .58cal...the changing hunters environment might now be more to think about when making a caliber selection for the future than we've had to do in the past.

In my own case, for continued weekend shooting practice/enjoyment and deer hunting, lead could be banned from the face of the earth tomorrow and I wouldn’t miss a beat with a .58cal on hand.

=======================================
Once fired (1X) balls in the photo were recovered after passing through 21 inches of rubber mulch in a cardboard trap box I made and don’t have a mark on them, no changes in dimensions, patches are perfect. Will be field testing them on deer in the next few weeks.
(UPDATE: I ACTUALLY USED ONE OF THESE ONCE FIRED BALLS TO TAKE A DEER IN LATE OCTOBER, 2012)
Nonlead Certification for Ammunition Manufacturers

2013; the original but not latest attempt to ban all hunting and gun ownership in the state of Kalifornia.
http://www.latimes.com/local/polit...ry-brown-gun-control-20131011,0,6334949.story

 

[Flathorn]

Found this add I. NMLRA’s Muzzle Blast… may be of some help

 

[Griz44Mag]

Found this add I. NMLRA’s Muzzle Blast… may be of some help

thanks for all advice but after checking cali regs ihave decided till i move back to america . california rules andregs are more than i want to deal with. again thanks to all

I think this became a dead issue a couple of days ago.........
The OP had 2 different members here offer him ammo at a whole lot lower price already.
He declined to accept, reject or even comment on either one of them.

 

[nhmoose]

Pretend it is a shotgun and use a plastic wad and non lead projectile. All I can say on this forum But for a shotgun on this forum it is allowed.

I would not hunt in CA nor go there.

 

[brushblind]

Don't support the Commie's, hunt elsewhere! But, if you must, you might want to do the archery approach, those Rage broadheads do a number!

 

[Nuthatch]

Yes, the lead free with traditional muzzleloaders is a pain. But it's not a real impediment to hunting.

Home cast Rotometals alloy -- .480 mould with 0.02 patch works extremely well. Shoots right with lead out of my .50s both rifled and smooth. Slight penetration advantage through water jugs. Neither lead nor bismuth expanded at all at about 1650 fps. Balls recovered from the dirt are mostly in-tact but some have split in half. The one we recovered from the water jugs barely had any marks from the rifling and could have easily been shot again as-is. The above patch/ball combo loads easily, shoots accurately and expels easily with a CO2 discharger. Accuracy-wise, we put a 1" dot on the aim-point for the jug test. I barely missed it with lead. I hit it with the bismith. We used a rest because we only had one shot each and didn't want to mess it up. So that's the accuracy potential of the patch/ball load with me mostly taken out of the equation -- 1" at 50 yards! Plenty for hunting.

ITX from TomBob. Slightly heavier but way harder. Even more accurate than Bismuth for me. I'd hesitate to use it in very rocky terrain, though. Ricochet potential is huge. Every ball I've recovered out of the dirt barely had a scratch on it. You can easily wash & reshoot them. Great grab-n-go option.

Thor full-bore conicals. The 247 gr bullet is very effective on deer. It's a full-bore size hollow point that I've heard is actually made by Barnes. At extended ranges (like 80 yards), I had one pass straight through with no expansion that I could tell from the exit wound -- like a heavy round ball in that case. But at close range (about 10 yards), it expanded to about 1" diameter and I recovered the bullet under the off-side rib. Both were devastating shots to the deer. They stabilize just fine in my 1:48 twist hawken and are more accurate than round ball. They shoot very closely to 295 gr PowerBelts within 80 yards so I've sighted in with powerbelts, confirmed with a few shots of Thors and then gone hunting.

 

[Nuthatch]

The rifle season on CA bears is closed until September anyway so you have plenty of time to get your kit together & try out a few things.

 

[Robby]

thanks for all advice but after checking cali regs ihave decided till i move back to america . california rules andregs are more than i want to deal with. again thanks to all

Sorry to read that Jim. I hate when these new age Nazis' win. This will be coming to your state sooner or later, its' already being considered here.
Robby

 

[Woody Morgan]

Just renewed my hunting and fresh water fishing licenses. Added upland bird and a pig tag. Almost $100.
Same as a full-tank fillup in the truck unfortunately but at least I get to use it all year. Perspective.

Yeah, we're required to hunt with non-lead. Adapt or stay home and knit. Write letters to your rep while you're at it. (staying on topic)

wm