Where Do I Start!?!?

[Jerry Samouce]

Howdy fellas!
My name is Jerry. I live near Raleigh NC.
I own my own working forge, and I am a blacksmith and a bronze smith on the side.
and I have excellent wood working and leather working skills.
I am also the owner Old Soldier Ironworks!

I am a 52 year old, US Army Veteran with a Revolutionary War fetish.
I am in over 25 books into Revolutionary war history... Own a timeshare at Colonial Williamsburg... Own a large collection of real Revolutionary War currency... ect...
Yeah, I got it BAD!

I am seriously moving toward Revolutionary War reenacting.
and I am slowly building a rig for reenacting as a NC Mountain Patriot Scott.
Yeah, Not too many of those, but my Whiteside Scottish relatives where some of the few who refused the Tory call, and fought as patriots at Cowpens, Kings Mountain and Yorktown. Because there where very few Scottish patriots, there is very little written about NC Highlander Scotts as Patriots. So, I am not sure what type of Flintlock they would have most likely been owned by them.

I am familiar with Modern Fire Arms and own many.
BUT... I know NOTHING about black powder firearms and Revolutionary War Flintlocks!

I have read much about the Kentucky Long Rifleman's role in the war.
and I am sort of leaning that way, but as I said, I also know little about what type of flintlock a NC Highlander would have most likely owned. I would like to own a working historically accurate revolutionary War flintlock someday. But where to start?

I have never fired a Black powder rifle. Thus, I know little to nothing of what musket accessories I would eventually need, the caliber best suited for me, or the costs involved.

What advice would you give a totally clueless individual to the flintlock. What is the best most efficient way to start my education?

 

[Coot]

If you are seriously considering Rev war reenacting, I would start by visiting events and talking with the people involved. Quite likely you may find a group or unit that appeals to you & it would be their standards and type of equipment that you would need. Reenacting or even volunteering at a historic site is not a solo venture & all too often a newcomer to the hobby gets themselves all geared up (spending time & money) only to find out that their gear is incorrect for the unit they wish to join or the site they want to support.
I am sure that you have heard about "the right way, the wrong way & the Army way" - its the same in the reenactment world.

An event coming up in Apri in NC (it is an F&I event rather than revwar) where you could meet some reenactors would be "War for Empire" at Fort Dobbs State Historic Site (with a recently completed 3 story fortified barracks) just outside Statesville. Mrs Coot & I will be there set up at "the sign of the Blue Cat". Please come by. A gunsmith friend (specializing in NC rifles) is normally there as well.

As for books, you cannot have too many reference books. A good start for the three major types of flintlocks would be:
Muskets - "Muskets of the Revolution" by Bill Ahearn
Fowlers - (more correctly fowling pieces as a "fowler is actually the hunter) - "Flintlock Fowlers" by Tom Grinslade
Rifles - (since you are currently focused on NC) - "Longrifles of North Carolina" by John Bivens, Jr. and "Gunsmiths of the Carolinas" by . James B. Whisker, Glenn Bryan, Lou Russo & Ray McKnight

Bookfinder.com is a search engine that hunts 1000s of new & used booksellers & should find any of the above (some out of print). If the budget is tight or no copy available for sale, interlibrary loan thru your local library should get you a loaner.

 

[Jerry Samouce]

Croot: excellent Info all the way around.
Do you have a link to that event?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Only 25 books? Add to your collection the excellent "Flintlocks" by Eric Bye. It's available through the NMLRA or many other vendors.

By all means, go to events. Talk to reenacting units visit with Coot. Let those units know you are a blacksmith and a bronzesmith and they will be recruiting you.

I thought Colonial Williamsburg had a program to introduce people to shooting flintlocks that included firing a round or two.

Welcome and I hope you find reenacting a rewarding as I have.

 

[Rudyard]

Dear Mr Samouse You have ben given good advise .on getting involved via events .Re Scots I can only emagine they had normal enough arms of the period , Not ruleing out but not to likely to be using any distinctly Scottish arms , old Snaphances ect , perhaps an old pistol but again speculation. Dirks could be in the mix useful and symbolic in its way .Retired left Highland Regiments might have there swords & arms but those issue arms if not returned to store would be F&I rather basic arms . All rather speculative on my part . You could roll your R ss ! .That at least would be plausible any of what I've mentioned could be plausible just not that likely .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Coot]

Croot: excellent Info all the way around.
Do you have a link to that event?

www.fortdobbs.org/events

 

[airrcman70]

Jerry,
There will be a re-enactment of the battle of guilford court house this week-end (march14 and15) in Greensboro. It is really a big event. Also, there is a very active black powder shooting group in Fuquay Varina called Lafayette Longrifles. They shoot the fourth Saturday. they have a Facebook page. if you have any more questions e-mail me at [email protected].

 

[Jerry Samouce]

Great advice on the reenactment...
Now I really need some advice on the rifle. I was looking at Jim Chamber's flintlocks online specifically the Mark Silver Virginia Rifle. He didn't offer a Kentucky Long Rifle unless the Kentucky Long Rifle is the same thing? and if so.. How? What accessories would I need? Powder horn? baldric? Ball? what kind of powder? do I make my own powder cartrages? ect. What are the ball park costs to get a total functioning Rifle set up?

Just for nerdiness, I attached a few photo of some of my Currency Collection

 

[Jerry Samouce]

Jerry,
There will be a re-enactment of the battle of guilford court house this week-end (march14 and15) in Greensboro. It is really a big event. Also, there is a very active black powder shooting group in Fuquay Varina called Lafayette Longrifles. They shoot the fourth Saturday. they have a Facebook page. if you have any more questions e-mail me at [email protected].

I'd love to but I am a vendor at a veterans Jeep event at Nine Line Tshirt company in GA. that weekend. I own old soldier Ironworks.

 

[Jim Evans]

You may want to look at the Kibler Colonial Longrifle Kit,he also has video on youtube on how to assemble them.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Take a look at Jim Kibler colonial rifle. I’m working on a kit from him and it’s as good as people are saying. Since you seem to be handy you’ll wind up with a first rate rifle. My retired work pace is best described as glacial and in two days it is functional already. The fine work of finishing the wood and metal will take the most time for me. At just over a thousand bucks it’s not a casual spend but watch some of his assembly videos and you’ll have a good idea of care he’s put into the product.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Great advice on the reenactment...
Now I really need some advice on the rifle. I was looking at Jim Chamber's flintlocks online specifically the Mark Silver Virginia Rifle. He didn't offer a Kentucky Long Rifle unless the Kentucky Long Rifle is the same thing? and if so.. How? What accessories would I need? Powder horn? baldric? Ball? what kind of powder? do I make my own powder cartrages? ect. What are the ball park costs to get a total functioning Rifle set up?

As much as I would like to see you with a rifle, that is one of the items I would defer until you have decided on what unit you would want to reenact with. You might find out that your unit has smoothbore French guns or Colonial stores Brown Besses. You would have spent a lot of money on a rifle that wouldn't fit in with reenacting. (I've been there and done that). Accessories would also depend on the reenacting unit.

Kentucky Long Rifles were a term coined during the War of 1812 based on a verse of a song commemorating the Battle of New Orleans. The contemporary term would be a Pennsylvania Rifle as most rifles carried into Kentucky were made in Pennsylvania.

For a first time kit, Jim Kibler's Colonial Virginia is a great rifle. Of course as a smith, making chisels, files, scrapers and most tools are likely already in your possession or you could make them as needed. You would need a shot pouch, powder horn, powder measure, black powder (NO synthetic powder), turn screws, vent picks, flint lock spring vise, a sturdy working rod, cleaning jags, ball puller and a few more items. Chamber's kit is also very good with top quality parts.

 

[Coot]

Grenadier's point is well taken. Unless you can afford several guns, hold off till you have a better feel for things. Keep in mind that some of these "kits" are basically unfinished parts and both time & skill will be required to finish & fit them into a good gun. While many say the barrel is the heart of the gun, with flintlocks, the quality of the lock is critical to enjoyment of the gun. A poor lock will lead to endless frustration and has caused more than one to give up on flinters. Building a gun from a good kit will give you a fun project and get you into shooting while looking into the reenactment community - IF you are prepared to have to get a second gun to be able to "fit in" with whatever aspect of reenacting you ultimately get into. Sometimes we drift into an unplanned era or persona, based on what the local options are and where you feel comfortable.

Hope you can make it to "War for Empire". If married or with significant other, bring her - it is a family event & Mrs Coot can share info on women dressing the part.

 

[Treestalker]

Unless you are committed to infantry and marching doesn't bother you, you might consider artillery. It's quite a bit less demanding on us older guys, and more stationary. Unless you own/provide a piece, it can be quite easy to morph into a gun crew member, and cannoneers are always looking for help.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I do know how this hobby works. Its like an addiction. Once Jerry buys that high quality, top performing rifle, he won't be so adverse to the expense of a second or third flintlock.

 

[billraby]

How much money does it cost? All of it.

 

[tenngun]

You mentioned being an army vet (God bless you and thank you for your service) do you like to march? Boot camp style?
Military boys play hard and like boot camp practice hard. You can’t march and form up right on a field unless you practice. Umph.
Civilian militia was often more laid back.
Like picking a gun you want to pick an activity you can enjoy.
A camp thrown up by some undisciplined corinthians vs military in line weighs on your thinking.
Cost can run pretty high no matter what you do. A Loyilist arms musket is about $700, perdersoli twice that. A kit for a period rifle about $700 a custom built 3-5 times as much.
A wedge tent is about $400. A uniform is more exacting then low end civilian clothing, a lobster back more exacting then Yankee Doodle. You can sew up civilian clothing with moderate skill, or buy it cheaper then a uniform. Your kit, can, canteen haversack personal goods and gun care might eat up a couple / three hundred. Some can be made pretty easy some can’t most can be added to over time... there is always something sexy in sitters row.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Great advice on the reenactment... Now I really need some advice on the rifle.

The question is then why and how?

So, you're 52, and it's the AWI (Rev War) so that means you were born around 1724, and as a Highlander, so in Scotland.

So you were 22 or 23 when the Jacobites rebelled. The question is, were you forced into immigration ("transported") because during the rebellion you were captured and tried, and sent to Georgia (many many Jacobites went to Georgia, but not all)....or..., did you join the Black Watch prior to the Jacobites, actually fought on the side of The Crown, and then got shipped to various locations, namely Flanders and then Ireland, prior to the F&I? (The military would've liked you to join, being a blacksmith, and you'd have been allowed to make extra money) Then during the F&I you were sent to North America, and following the conflict, you mustered out and stayed in 1762. You would have been 38. I mention this because as an inducement to mustering out in North America, the Brits would've issued you a Bess. but no bayonet

So there is a very good reason you would have a Bess. It really should be a Long Land Pattern, but …, if you got hold of a factory, Italian or Japanese made Bess, I don't think folks would quibble much.

On the other hand because of your age and trade, you're likely to have had a rifle for a while now, so it would likely be of an older style. I'd suggest no smaller than .50 caliber and .54 would be an excellent choice too. Wooden patch box. Barrel from 38" to 42" and..., if you can manage it get it swamped. A Kibler kit with a wooden patch box would be an excellent choice (imho).

Even if the group you're going to join uses a different gun (if your rifle doesn't "work" for the group, they likely use muskets), you will likely want a rifle anyway.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

I was just reminded of a couple of other books that could provide some insight to the material culture of the pre-AWI colonial life. " Of Sorts for Provincials" and "For Trade and Treaty" . These books are readily available a d moderately priced.

 

[Jerry Samouce]

WOW! Fantastic Information about the rifle options so far!
Is it worth the savings to buy a used Flintlock?
I'm going to have to price all the firearm extras and also the rifle choices.
What gear should I begin amassing first to ease into this?
I plan to take my time figuring this out so that I do not have buyer's remorse.

I am Interested in meeting Coot April 4th or 5th at Ft, Dobbs...
Message me so I can send you my Phone Number.

BTW: Heck yeah, At Ft Knox I was briefly in the Foot Calvary, I can march in formation and parade! I am quite the marksman with a rifle! Although my eyes are not as laser sharp as they used to be at 200- 300 yards with iron sites.

I just registered my Whiteside Family's/Clan's Tartan at the Tartan registry in Scotland (photo attached) and I am having an 8 yard great kilt made in England and I have ordered enough Tartan yardage to form a classic "roll on the ground" kilt, which I could use for Reenactment as a Whiteside NC highland Scott. So, I am working on this kit.

The Patriot Whitesides where volunteer militia, from what I understand, historically Militia dressed any way they wanted save the officer's cockade color. and from my studies the cause took in everyone it could get at the time especially near the end..

Here are some photos of the weapons gear I have so far...
I made that tomahawk in my forge.
The sword is made by Mark Green from Forged in Fire.

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